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[cnet] Google to fund WINE development for Photoshop compatibility. - Page 3

post #21 of 48
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I'm talking about Vista vs Linux, why do you think Vista is a better OS to have? Why do you not dual boot?
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post #22 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
I'm talking about Vista vs Linux, why do you think Vista is a better OS to have? Why do you not dual boot?
Why would you think Linux is better? There is the more important question, as Windows is the dominant operating system. And as to why i don't dual boot is because i don't need Linux. It serves absolutely no purpose for me. However i do keep a copy of Kubuntu around just incase, recently my boot sector got screwed on my laptop. Linux came in handy with it's might 0-out of doom. I have used Linux, a good deal as well. I've fooled with drivers and everything on it, i am very happy Windows exists because it is indeed ,for me, the superior operating system. Linux does have its uses, but for my uses (overclocking, gaming, programming, and other hobbies and such) Vista is the choice i have made and i am very happy with it. Linux i admit is better for things like servers in most cases (although at the moment Linux is getting torn through like butter from an attack method and last i check hasn't been resolved.) It is also good for programmers because it is open source it allows allot of very interesting projects that can't be done on Windows which is closed source. Since you seem very intent on arguing about this, i will retract what i said earlier and go ahead. I have nothing better to do anyways :

Vista is more user friendly. One thing i didn't like about Linux is the way you installed programs. Although it didn't take as much time there was more hassle involved. Drivers on Linux (especially for laptops) is very annoying allot of the time, i couldn't even find any drivers for my Acer Aspire 5040's wifi card. Now often i have seen Linux users complain about UAC on Vista. I noticed on Kubuntu at least the root access system (which is pretty much exactly the same in concept) does the same thing, except it is a whole lot less user friendly and i mean it was a pain on my little mouse pad dragging my mouse around running things with root access. UAC brings it up, you can press enter and your done. Root access didn't even have it in the right click menu you had to go to the bottom right panel and click it there. I must say though i thoroughly live LiveCD that was one of the handiest things i have ever seen.I like the user interface in Vista, you can press the start button, type a key word for what you want (usually, sometimes you need more then one word if you have shortcuts with similar names) and press enter and it launches. Vista is more appealing to the eye, well mine anyways this is another one that is totally and completely user opinion. Windows Aero interface is clean and crisp with excellent stability. The customizability is a bit lacking when compared to the many distro you can use on Linux but it looks exactly as i want it to anyways so thats not a big deal for me. The Aero 3D windows interface is nice, but Linux has the exact same thing from what i was told so thats not a point for Vista. That and Ubuntu has allot of things like that, although some can be quite tacky. I love Vista's CP layout, gets the job done fast, the user interface as a whole gets things done quicker after you get used to it. I love the snipping tool in Vista, just throwing that out there. When we are talking operating systems every little useful tool counts big.

In Vista i had Microsoft's extensive library of information on error codes, problems, solutions, i could upload error reports, etc. On Linux there are similar libraries however this is all scattered not 1 place has all the information together and often you must go to a message board, place a topic, and wait. I like my drivers nice and recent. Windows has the best driver support, it is the first thing companies make sure drivers are out for. Linux comes 2nd if at all. Ontop of that programs themselves don't even come out for Linux before Windows, Windows takes priority and will continue to take priority for many years to come most likely. I liked the performance monitor in Linux, but the one in Vista is definitely superior on many levels. It provides rediculous amounts of information compared to it's Linux counterpart, at least on the distro i have used.

I like DX10, despite what everyone says DX10 is a major improvement on allot of areas. Drawing things long distances away, water effects, lighting, fire, and more are all massively improved. I am not even sure if you can run DX10 in wine at all. I know at least some DX9 games run in Linux though, some even perform better under Linux. Now i am a gamer, so i want the code to run natively. Also this bring me to compatibility. Windows won the war long ago, now that it is dominant Windows programs have to be emulated under Linux, which isn't Linux fault of course, but i like my programs to be hassle free. Installing and running under Wine is a bit of trouble that i don't like dealing with. Ontop of that even DX9 is superior to OpenGL, graphically anyways. I know loading times on OpenGL are very very much better then on DirectX. I have never programmed with OpenGL so i couldn't tell you how the programming aspect of it is so i won't go into that. People often complain about performance but, as i said above, i lost no performance and gained performance on the desktop as well as a boost over XP in certain operations like launching GoW (which is a pain) when i installed SP1.

I like the sidebar better, another matter of opinion of course. Now theres allot of great things about Linux (and i'm covering why i like Linux as well so i don't get more fanboys after me) is the effects in Ubuntu, the customizability, the variety of things, the usefulness of LiveCD is my favorite (come on who doesn't love LiveCD?)

Usually people say Vista has compatibility issues, it doesn't. Not a single one of my programs has issues. Not a single thing i use is incompatible. The compatibility issues are extremely limited and in my experience with other people the things that got ditched were mostly strange programs with almost no support and badly written or hacks/keygens/cheating programs/cracks/etc. Linux however can't run any Windows programs hardly without the aid of Wine.

Often people complain about genuine validation, i did as well. I fixed it with a 5 minute call to Microsoft. It literally took 5 minutes. Ontop of that the only issues that people were wining about since Vista (and i have had it since a week after release) that were true was a memory leak. It sucked RAM and killed performance in high memory usage games back when i had 2Gb. The only game affect terribly badly though was 2142. Now after the fix was released all that disappeared and faded away into history. Now all the woes people complained about have been pretty much eliminated (with some exceptions, such as driver signing which is absolutely useless and i wish Microsoft would remove it.)

Really the biggest question is why would someone use Linux? (Other then the fact Linux is free.) What advantages does it have? I've used both and i love Linux for allot of things but for my uses the OS isn't the best choice. Whether you use Linux of Windows is really a question of what you want to do and what you are willing to put up with. I like Vista but maybe Linux is better for you were not all going to use the same operating system and thats why there is more then one. What is the point of going around starting pointless arguments when we both know at the end of the day were both gonna use the same operating system regardless of who wins or loses or if it comes to a draw. Theres no point in it. I like Vista better but i don't go around telling people "why would you use Linux? Vista is better you should be using it." Because i know they chose that operating system for a reason.


_
I would also like to ask if anyone knows where i can get an ISO for Knoppix STD? Be handy to have on my laptop since i have seen people lock themselves out of their wireless networks more then once...
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post #23 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Microsoft would never say that since it would hurt sales of Windows for them to admit it.
My point exactly; it's not going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
Out of interest, why do you think Vista is better? What does it offer you that means it's worth the money and not worth dual booting (if you need it for gaming)?
Latty, if you put a stick in dog (crap), no matter which way you turn the stick, it's always going to be dog (crap.)

STOP TRYING TO TURN THE STICK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Vista is more user friendly.
But we hate OSX because it's too user friendly
post #24 of 48
If WINE can run my games with close to normal frame rates, then I will delete my XP partition. Until that day, I will use Windows for DirectX.
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post #25 of 48
This is very good news indeed!

Licht and myself were comparing Aero vs. Compiz-Fusion screenshots one night. Aero does look good, but performance related, Windows really cannot touch Linux in any aspect. I have recently taught myself how to implement a Linux file server into an active directory environment and I will say that a Linux server is so much better than a Windows server. I installed a CentOS5 file server for a client who now has 65 employees who all CONSTANTLY read and write to and the server never goes above 270mb ram usage...it has 2 gigs, lol. All of my Windows file servers use at leaset 520mb, and that's one from a much smaller client, about 35-40 employees. Linux is on it's way through, and this is a great step forward. I tried Ubuntu about 2 years ago and did not like it at all....I now dual boot Mint and XP Pro and am in both an equal amount of time.

As a test I've even given my Mint laptop to my fiancee when she went on vacation for a week with her family. She used it the entire time and even she said that it ran much better than her XP laptop...and my Mint lappy is OLD.

I say all this because Linux has already made leaps and bounds and if someone like google is involved....well, anyhting can happen now


And Licht, Compiz-Fusion wipes the floor with Aero
 
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post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbpenguins412 View Post
If WINE can run my games with close to normal frame rates, then I will delete my XP partition. Until that day, I will use Windows for DirectX.
I think Wine does that already for some games doesn't it?
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post #27 of 48
I'm switching over the linux the second they make it user-friendly lol.
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post #28 of 48
Now that's progress
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post #29 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
Why not instead invest in a native Linux alternative?
Because a perfectly good one already exists. The whole industry is familiar with Photoshop meaning an already existing ton of plug ins/ support/ tutorials/etc. If they make Linux compatible with everything then the lack of Linux developing companies ceases to matter.
post #30 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Why would you think Linux is better? There is the more important question, as Windows is the dominant operating system. And as to why i don't dual boot is because i don't need Linux.
To stop myself re-writing my basic argument, I'll just link to my Linux challenge thread, which explains most of my points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
It serves absolutely no purpose for me. However i do keep a copy of Kubuntu around just incase, recently my boot sector got screwed on my laptop. Linux came in handy with it's might 0-out of doom. I have used Linux, a good deal as well. I've fooled with drivers and everything on it, i am very happy Windows exists because it is indeed ,for me, the superior operating system. Linux does have its uses, but for my uses (overclocking, gaming, programming, and other hobbies and such) Vista is the choice i have made and i am very happy with it. Linux i admit is better for things like servers in most cases (although at the moment Linux is getting torn through like butter from an attack method and last i check hasn't been resolved.) It is also good for programmers because it is open source it allows allot of very interesting projects that can't be done on Windows which is closed source. Since you seem very intent on arguing about this, i will retract what i said earlier and go ahead. I have nothing better to do anyways :
I don't want to argue, I was to discuss - there is a fine difference. A good discussion is always a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Vista is more user friendly. One thing i didn't like about Linux is the way you installed programs. Although it didn't take as much time there was more hassle involved.
More hassle? Could you elaborate? I can't see how using Synaptic is more hassle than a) buying software or b) googling it, finding it, running the installer, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Drivers on Linux (especially for laptops) is very annoying allot of the time, i couldn't even find any drivers for my Acer Aspire 5040's wifi card.
Drivers are a problem, I admit. Although I would recommend wireless access points. Drivers for Linux have to be reverse-engineered by open source programmers - it's a wonder that so many get written as it is. I admit, Windows will always have the better driver support until developers start supporting Linux or using open standards/open documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Now often i have seen Linux users complain about UAC on Vista. I noticed on Kubuntu at least the root access system (which is pretty much exactly the same in concept) does the same thing, except it is a whole lot less user friendly and i mean it was a pain on my little mouse pad dragging my mouse around running things with root access. UAC brings it up, you can press enter and your done. Root access didn't even have it in the right click menu you had to go to the bottom right panel and click it there.
The difference is, UAC pops up every time I do anything on Vista. With a good Linux distro, gksudo/kdesu/sudo (what you are referring to) only appears when you actually are doing something only root should do. Windows software is not written to be secure, and messes with stuff that requires UAC permission all the time. You can also, with gksudo/kdesu/sudo, make it work without passwords (and make it work without passwords for certain applications), in which case, it is transparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I must say though i thoroughly live LiveCD that was one of the handiest things i have ever seen.
True stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I like the user interface in Vista, you can press the start button, type a key word for what you want (usually, sometimes you need more then one word if you have shortcuts with similar names) and press enter and it launches.
I personally hate that feature - but check out the kickstart menu - it has that feature (and was created long before Vista).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Vista is more appealing to the eye, well mine anyways this is another one that is totally and completely user opinion. Windows Aero interface is clean and crisp with excellent stability. The customizability is a bit lacking when compared to the many distro you can use on Linux but it looks exactly as i want it to anyways so thats not a big deal for me. The Aero 3D windows interface is nice, but Linux has the exact same thing from what i was told so thats not a point for Vista.
Indeed, Compiz Fuzion by far outclasses the Windows interface for being cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
That and Ubuntu has allot of things like that, although some can be quite tacky.
It's up to you if you want it on or off, mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I love Vista's CP layout, gets the job done fast, the user interface as a whole gets things done quicker after you get used to it. I love the snipping tool in Vista, just throwing that out there. When we are talking operating systems every little useful tool counts big.
I'm don't know much about the snipping tool, so I can't really comment. I googled a little and it does look good. Frankly, The comment about the interface can be mirrored to Linux, except with Linux you can change everything to suit you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
In Vista i had Microsoft's extensive library of information on error codes, problems, solutions, i could upload error reports, etc. On Linux there are similar libraries however this is all scattered not 1 place has all the information together and often you must go to a message board, place a topic, and wait.
Not true at all. Googling for an error 99% of the time gets you the result in any Linux distro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I like my drivers nice and recent. Windows has the best driver support, it is the first thing companies make sure drivers are out for. Linux comes 2nd if at all. Ontop of that programs themselves don't even come out for Linux before Windows, Windows takes priority and will continue to take priority for many years to come most likely. I liked the performance monitor in Linux, but the one in Vista is definitely superior on many levels. It provides rediculous amounts of information compared to it's Linux counterpart, at least on the distro i have used.
I find open source software is generally far better than it's closed source alternative. Drivers, I have said about before, and yes, it's not an issue the community can sort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I like DX10, despite what everyone says DX10 is a major improvement on allot of areas. Drawing things long distances away, water effects, lighting, fire, and more are all massively improved. I am not even sure if you can run DX10 in wine at all. I know at least some DX9 games run in Linux though, some even perform better under Linux. Now i am a gamer, so i want the code to run natively.
Games, I'd say Linux is worth the dual boot, there is not that much more to say, for me. Windows obviously has the upper hand there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Also this bring me to compatibility. Windows won the war long ago, now that it is dominant Windows programs have to be emulated under Linux, which isn't Linux fault of course, but i like my programs to be hassle free. Installing and running under Wine is a bit of trouble that i don't like dealing with. Ontop of that even DX9 is superior to OpenGL, graphically anyways. I know loading times on OpenGL are very very much better then on DirectX. I have never programmed with OpenGL so i couldn't tell you how the programming aspect of it is so i won't go into that.
OpenGL is better, it's just not utilized by the people who could do spectacular things with it (Pro Devs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
People often complain about performance but, as i said above, i lost no performance and gained performance on the desktop as well as a boost over XP in certain operations like launching GoW (which is a pain) when i installed SP1.
A Linux distro will be faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I like the sidebar better, another matter of opinion of course.
There are similar programs for Linux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Now theres allot of great things about Linux (and i'm covering why i like Linux as well so i don't get more fanboys after me) is the effects in Ubuntu, the customizability, the variety of things, the usefulness of LiveCD is my favorite (come on who doesn't love LiveCD?)

Usually people say Vista has compatibility issues, it doesn't. Not a single one of my programs has issues. Not a single thing i use is incompatible. The compatibility issues are extremely limited and in my experience with other people the things that got ditched were mostly strange programs with almost no support and badly written or hacks/keygens/cheating programs/cracks/etc. Linux however can't run any Windows programs hardly without the aid of Wine.
Well, it can't run any without WINE, but remember there is a huge library of open source software out there - which is generally far better than the closed source alternative.

Vista does have some compatability issues. I'll say that. You might not be experiencing them, so you are lucky, but they are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Often people complain about genuine validation, i did as well. I fixed it with a 5 minute call to Microsoft. It literally took 5 minutes.
Yeah, but I don't have to sell my soul while installing Arch/Ubuntu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Ontop of that the only issues that people were wining about since Vista (and i have had it since a week after release) that were true was a memory leak. It sucked RAM and killed performance in high memory usage games back when i had 2Gb. The only game affect terribly badly though was 2142. Now after the fix was released all that disappeared and faded away into history. Now all the woes people complained about have been pretty much eliminated (with some exceptions, such as driver signing which is absolutely useless and i wish Microsoft would remove it.)

Really the biggest question is why would someone use Linux? (Other then the fact Linux is free.) What advantages does it have? I've used both and i love Linux for allot of things but for my uses the OS isn't the best choice.
Oh, but I believe it is. See way, way above for what I said on this earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Whether you use Linux of Windows is really a question of what you want to do and what you are willing to put up with. I like Vista but maybe Linux is better for you were not all going to use the same operating system and thats why there is more then one.
Yes, but I believe a lot of people could benefit more from Linux than they do from Windows. Linux is an OS that is growing fast, and if enough people support it - it will become better in every way than windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
What is the point of going around starting pointless arguments when we both know at the end of the day were both gonna use the same operating system regardless of who wins or loses or if it comes to a draw. Theres no point in it. I like Vista better but i don't go around telling people "why would you use Linux? Vista is better you should be using it." Because i know they chose that operating system for a reason.
Because I don't think that you know enough to make an informed decision, or don't understand why you made that decision, so I am asking you about it, so I can see why you are running Windows. I just believe more people should be trying Linux, as they could benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I would also like to ask if anyone knows where i can get an ISO for Knoppix STD? Be handy to have on my laptop since i have seen people lock themselves out of their wireless networks more then once...
http://www.knoppix-std.org/ would seem the place to go.

Also, check out OCNix. (Check the Linux Forum, it's got a sub-forum).
Shinobu
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Index
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe HD6450 Flex Crucial 16GB (2x 8GB) Ballistix Elite 
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Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB TOSHIBA DT01ACA300 Arch Linux Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 
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Dell U2410 Dell 2407WFP Cherry - Cherry Blue Switches (Unlabeled keys) Seasonic X-650 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
BitFenix Prodigy Black Logitech M570 Trackball Sennheiser HD595 Creative GigaWorks T20 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Zotac Z77-ITX WiFi EVGA 680 GTX Samsung 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 256GB 830 Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ Windows 7 Dell U2410 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardCase
Dell 2407WFP Dell E248WFP Cherry Black (MX Blue Switches, Blank Keys) Silverstone Sugi SG08B 
MouseAudioAudio
Logitech Trackman Logitech Z-5500 Sennheiser HD595s 
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AMD Athlon II X2 240e Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 Crucial 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600Mhz Ballistix Sport 1.5TB Hard Drives 
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Shinobu
(16 items)
 
Nodoka
(16 items)
 
Index
(4 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe HD6450 Flex Crucial 16GB (2x 8GB) Ballistix Elite 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB TOSHIBA DT01ACA300 Arch Linux Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2410 Dell 2407WFP Cherry - Cherry Blue Switches (Unlabeled keys) Seasonic X-650 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
BitFenix Prodigy Black Logitech M570 Trackball Sennheiser HD595 Creative GigaWorks T20 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Zotac Z77-ITX WiFi EVGA 680 GTX Samsung 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 256GB 830 Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ Windows 7 Dell U2410 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardCase
Dell 2407WFP Dell E248WFP Cherry Black (MX Blue Switches, Blank Keys) Silverstone Sugi SG08B 
MouseAudioAudio
Logitech Trackman Logitech Z-5500 Sennheiser HD595s 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD Athlon II X2 240e Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 Crucial 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600Mhz Ballistix Sport 1.5TB Hard Drives 
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