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The most important feature. Do you know what it is? - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but card performance can't be limited to just one spec. Sure, memory bandwidth is important--and I've noticed that overclocking the mem on my card gives much higher performance than overclocking the GPU--but that all has to do with what the limiting factor of the card is. You can have a HUGE memory speed/bandwidth but a crappy/slow GPU, and you aren't going to get performance. I'm not saying that you're absolutely wrong, only that it's a much more complex problem than what your rationale implies...
    
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post #22 of 32
I don't know a whole lot about GFX card;s, but when I had my 2900 Pro, I could OC the core to 974. This is a HUGE overclock from stock, but it only resulted in 100+ 3dmarks. It was much better in games, but the benchmark didn't change that much. It just goes to show that each card and each bench react differently.
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post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50 View Post
Cards have to be balanced much like processors, just the right amount of shaders, bandwidth has to be just right for the price, but not too bad of a bottleneck. If I have an 8600GTS with a 1024 bit memory bus, then is it going to beat 9600 GT with its 256 bit bus? NO!

There is no single item that you can compare to measure performance,
Yes there is, thats my point. Though in your first paragraph you talk of bus width not memory bandwidth. I think you misunderstood me. You wanna see where GB/s coming out of your video cards back end results in direct performance? Look at the link below:

Source

But I never said it was the only factor to consider, just one of the most important ones....

Why do you think the 360 can push amazing graphics with it's inferior GPU archetecture to whats out now? Because it's memory bandwidth (what it can push to your TV) is 256GB/s!

~R
post #24 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but card performance can't be limited to just one spec.
I agree. But memory bandwidth is what the card can push out it's rear end to your monitor. It's the end result of all the tweaking, overclocking, architecture improvements, bus width widening all will improve your memory bandwidth.

Quote:
Sure, memory bandwidth is important--and I've noticed that overclocking the mem on my card gives much higher performance than overclocking the GPU--but that all has to do with what the limiting factor of the card is.
When you overclock your GPU, the GB/s coming out of your card will rise slightly, same with memory. It's all directly related.
(Example: 9600GT has 57.2GB/s stock, I decide to overclock the GPU to 700Mhz, the memory would rise slightly to say, 59.7GB/s)

Quote:
You can have a HUGE memory speed/bandwidth but a crappy/slow GPU, and you aren't going to get performance..
You can't have huge memory bandwidth with a crappy GPU period. It's directly related. Check here for link proving this. Spot the trend:

Source
post #25 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Keep diggin that hole, bus width is the limiting factor in terms of memory bandwidth,
This used to be the case with AGP and nvidia's 5xxx series of cards and below but obviously now it's not. They do amazing things with the architecture of cards to get around bus width limits. You can see that on the source link I showed you with all of nvidia's chipsets listed. You sound like someone who would say 4-5 years ago that a card with 512MB's a ram was useless (which it was) because the bus width of the card was only 128bit. This is totally false as the Xbox 360 has 512MB's of Video ram and a 128bit bus. Again though, check my nvidia spec link and look at the trends with previous versions of cards.

Quote:
and yes until you get to 256bit it does make a difference
I'm not talking about bus width... I'm talking about memory bandwidth. What the card is actually pushing into your monitor.

Quote:
You seem to have been persuaded by AMD's hype that bigger numbers means more power, next thing you're going to be saying is that DX10.1 is a big improvement over DX10.
I am an Nvidia fanboy.. (thus the Nvidia links) And they already said DX10.1 does very little. Just some tidying up of code.
post #26 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suilenroc View Post
The 8800GT always beats the 9600. Why is that?

And which would you recommend? hehe.
Because it has almost double the shader processors and is clocked higher. Which allows it to perform better at higher resolutions.

I never said it was the only feature to look at, just the most important. Why do you think it performs very close to the 8800GT, yet has nearly half the shader processors? They did something to the architecture which allows it to run more effficent using less shaders, to pump out similar benchmarks and similar bandwidth.

I would get the 9600gt. The 8800GT (According to nvidia) has some features turned off in the G92 architecture, who knows what those could be. I don't yet. But I just saw a report regarding the 9600GT SLI benchmarks and they were amazing. They have obviously done something serious to improve SLI with the 9600... So if you ever wanted too, it would be much cheaper to buy two 9600GT's then 2 8800GT's. the 2 9600GT's amazingly scale way better then any other GPU before it. Even better then the 8800GT.



~R
post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by relic2279 View Post
Yes there is, thats my point. Though in your first paragraph you talk of bus width not memory bandwidth. I think you misunderstood me. You wanna see where GB/s coming out of your video cards back end results in direct performance? Look at the link below:

Source

But I never said it was the only factor to consider, just one of the most important ones....

Why do you think the 360 can push amazing graphics with it's inferior GPU archetecture to whats out now? Because it's memory bandwidth (what it can push to your TV) is 256GB/s!

~R
But to be fair, games on consoles are much more specifically-coded since only one set of hardware is being used to run the games--meaning that apparent inferior hardware can make the game look great and play well. I don't think the major reason the 360 (or PS3) games look and play so well is because of the memory bandwidth. Yes, when playing in high-def with many shaders/textures/etc. you'll need high memory bandwidth, but it's still more complicated than that.
    
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post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by relic2279 View Post
Because it has almost double the shader processors and is clocked higher. Which allows it to perform better at higher resolutions.

I never said it was the only feature to look at, just the most important. Why do you think it performs very close to the 8800GT, yet has nearly half the shader processors? They did something to the architecture which allows it to run more effficent using less shaders, to pump out similar benchmarks and similar bandwidth.

I would get the 9600gt. The 8800GT (According to nvidia) has some features turned off in the G92 architecture, who knows what those could be. I don't yet. But I just saw a report regarding the 9600GT SLI benchmarks and they were amazing. They have obviously done something serious to improve SLI with the 9600... So if you ever wanted too, it would be much cheaper to buy two 9600GT's then 2 8800GT's. the 2 9600GT's amazingly scale way better then any other GPU before it. Even better then the 8800GT.



~R
Ah, thanks very much. I was just looking at the SLI comparison, and it blew me away. I'll probably go for the 9600gt now, probably buy another later, and then step them both up to a 9800gtx.
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post #29 of 32
Well this is a first...
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post #30 of 32
The most important feature of a gfx card is the output port.
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