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[TcMag] LCD with 10,000:1 contrast ratio to be released by LG - Page 2

post #11 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka View Post
So, CRT still wins?

If you enjoy the washed out picture that CRTs provide then more power to you. It's referred to as contrast ratio because it is the ratio of the whitest white to the darkest black. It is not a measure of how bright or dark either end of the scale is, but their values with respect to each other. So a CRT may have a better contrast ratio, but it doesn't mean the darks are displayed as well, so the picture looks washed out by comparison. I have yet to see a CRT that can match my LCD in terms of picture quality.

If you are referring to the response time of CRT monitors, then you are completely missing the point: at anything below 15ms for an LCD monitor it doesn't matter and will be just as good as the CRT if you manage your framerate properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPIJG View Post
You would only need a faster response time if your refresh rate was say 120Hz or something crazy like that.
You wouldn't need a faster response time with a faster refresh rate - the monitor has no idea whether it is getting a newly-rendered frame or the same one it just displayed. In other words, a faster refresh rate only allows the monitor to display more images per second, so you could cap your framerate higher without experiencing ghosting. It doesn't require a faster response time.
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post #12 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
You claimed that even a 5ms response time would be unacceptable, which is simply untrue. In actuality, as long as the response time is below 15ms, it's good. It probably will be if only for the misconceptions that uninformed consumers have about response time.
I concur with everything you state about response times. This is okay, because we have to assume that not everyone reads. LCD response times are the biggest joke in the industry, even more so than PSU ratings. Companies don't report LCD response times accurately. A real response time of 20ms would be perfectly acceptable, but unfortunately idiots are fooled by small numbers and they have tweaked the systems they've used to measure response times or outright lied.

tl;dr: LG will just lie and put 5ms on the box regardless of what the panel can do...
    
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post #13 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonindeBeatrice View Post
I concur with everything you state about response times. This is okay, because we have to assume that not everyone reads. LCD response times are the biggest joke in the industry, even more so than PSU ratings. Companies don't report LCD response times accurately. A real response time of 20ms would be perfectly acceptable, but unfortunately idiots are fooled by small numbers and they have tweaked the systems they've used to measure response times or outright lied.

tl;dr: LG will just lie and put 5ms on the box regardless of what the panel can do...
I believe you are confusing response time with lag time? If not then my apolgies! I will take the time to explain the difference regardless though because it allows me to procrastinate at work and informs others who may not know but have decided to read this thread. (But mostly so that I can procrastinate at work.) If by 20ms being acceptable you mean that you can lower the framerate cap to below 60fps and not experience ghosting because you are giving the monitor enough time to refresh the screen, then you are correct. I had a 25ms monitor from Dell a long time ago and I never had any problems because I made sure my framerate cap was low enough.

The response time of a monitor is the time it takes for the image to display on screen, and the lag time is the time it takes for the monitor to actually receive the image. Both are important, which is why in my LCD resposne time FAQ I suggest limiting the framerate even lower than what you get as your theoretical maximum to avoid any issues. The response time that monitor manufacturers give is most certainly correct for what it is, but I have yet to see one that includes the lag time. You must also pay attention to whether or not the response time given is for gray-to-gray transition or from black-to-white-to-black. The former is the more common (where "gray" actually refers to a color that isn't black or white), and the latter will give you a higher response time and so most manufacturers give the response time as gray-to-gray.

Edit: I should probably add information about lag time to my FAQ...
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post #14 of 92
actually, i can, and will, say that i'll wait for OLED before i'll retire my dual 19" CRTs
post #15 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChielScape View Post
actually, i can, and will, say that i'll wait for OLED before i'll retire my dual 19" CRTs
Dual 19" CRTs? Wow! Your computer desk must be supported by steel girders.
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post #16 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
I believe you are confusing response time with lag time? If not then my apolgies! I will take the time to explain the difference regardless though because it allows me to procrastinate at work and informs others who may not know but have decided to read this thread. (But mostly so that I can procrastinate at work.) If by 20ms being acceptable you mean that you can lower the framerate cap to below 60fps and not experience ghosting because you are giving the monitor enough time to refresh the screen, then you are correct. I had a 25ms monitor from Dell a long time ago and I never had any problems because I made sure my framerate cap was low enough.

The response time of a monitor is the time it takes for the image to display on screen, and the lag time is the time it takes for the monitor to actually receive the image. Both are important, which is why in my LCD resposne time FAQ I suggest limiting the framerate even lower than what you get as your theoretical maximum to avoid any issues. The response time that monitor manufacturers give is most certainly correct for what it is, but I have yet to see one that includes the lag time. You must also pay attention to whether or not the response time given is for gray-to-gray transition or from black-to-white-to-black. The former is the more common (where "gray" actually refers to a color that isn't black or white), and the latter will give you a higher response time and so most manufacturers give the response time as gray-to-gray.

Edit: I should probably add information about lag time to my FAQ...
Nope I hadn't taken into consideration lag time. I was reasoning a black-white-black response time of 20ms as being perfectly fine for ~60fps gaming.

If I'm not mistaken on your description of lag time though, I would believe that since all frames are being lagged by the same amount of time, this value cannot lead to ghosting.
    
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post #17 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonindeBeatrice View Post
Nope I hadn't taken into consideration lag time. I was reasoning a black-white-black response time of 20ms as being perfectly fine for ~60fps gaming.

If I'm not mistaken on your description of lag time though, I would believe that since all frames are being lagged by the same amount of time, this value cannot lead to ghosting.
Correct. It leads to noticeable delays between a button press and the action on-screen.

As far as 20ms being fine for 60fps gaming, you are cutting it pretty close. 20ms has a maximum ideal framerate of 50fps.
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post #18 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChielScape View Post
actually, i can, and will, say that i'll wait for OLED before i'll retire my dual 19" CRTs
Um um um electrical bill? I think you should look into LCDs...they're pretty affordable now.
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post #19 of 92
I'm unimpressed with anything under 15,000:1. Im assuming this is just the dynamic contrast ratio anyway. Static Contrast Ratio is the most important number, which always significantly lower than dynamic.
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post #20 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElMikeTheMike View Post
I'm unimpressed with anything under 15,000:1. Im assuming this is just the dynamic contrast ratio anyway. Static Contrast Ratio is the most important number, which always significantly lower than dynamic.
You have very high standards

I'm fine with anything above 1700:1, how dark the blacks are is more important to me.

I always turn off the "dynamic contrast ratio" crap, it just hurts the picture IMHO.


(I personally cannot tell the difference after 3000:1, and 1700:1->3000:1 is minimal for me)
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