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mineral oil-based cooler - senior project - Page 2

post #11 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Basically.... The CPU area will be completely encased and submerged in mineral oil. Then these pipes run though the mineral oil and conduct heat to case.


It won't work and I'll explain why in a second:
1) Mineral oil won't be able to conduct heat away fast enough. A direct contact copper (401 W/m K) or aluminum block (250 W/m K) are maginitudes more effective conductors than oil (< 1 W/m K).
2) Surface area is the key to all passive cooling. You can calculate the surface area of the design and will find that it is lacking.
They don't conduct heat to the case...the fan on top of the reservoir (not modeled, like I said, but those gray cylinders on the top are threaded screws for it to be place over) blows air through the pipes. The air goes through whatever pipe it's in and is expelled out that 3x3 area. It is heated by the copper in the process.

This is not passive cooling...there is air flowing through the pipes.

Copper and aluminum have very high thermal conductivities, but 1) you will never get the contact you can get with water so you are never going to have that thermal conductivity effectively and 2) any heatsink or waterblock built from copper or aluminum uses thermal paste, which has a thermal conductivity of under 10.

Again, the pipes aren't in contact with the CPU. I am not relying on the surface area of pipes contacting the CPU, but I am relying on the surface area of the pipe exposed to the mineral oil, which is a lot.
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post #12 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruboy View Post
They don't conduct heat to the case...the fan on top of the reservoir (not modeled, like I said, but those gray cylinders on the top are threaded screws for it to be place over) blows air through the pipes. The air goes through whatever pipe it's in and is expelled out that 3x3 area. It is heated by the copper in the process.
Where does the hot air go? Into the case (or open atmosphere).


Check my post... I've updated it. The main issues are thermal resistence without direct contact block, little surface area, and lack of fluid flow.
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post #13 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Where does the hot air go? Into the case (or open atmosphere).


Check my post... I've updated it. The main issues are thermal resistence without direct contact block, little surface area, and lack of fluid flow.
As long as the hot air is on the outside of the acrylic reservoir, which it is, it will be away from the CPU and that's the main point. Acrylic doesn't conduct heat for crap. Most people have a top blower fan so that's where the heated air in the current setup there would be expelled, but this design could be easily rotated to have the hot air get blown out toward the back of the case, where most people have an exhaust fan. The reason why I have it blowing to the top at the moment is of course because the heated air rises. In practice this probably doesn't make that much of a difference.

Puget proved that a large volume of mineral oil in contact with EVERY component by itself did a great job cooling a CPU as long as the mineral oil was run through a passive reservoir. My system focuses on one component and uses a fan to move heat (in the form of heated air) away from the CPU.
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post #14 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruboy View Post
They don't conduct heat to the case...the fan on top of the reservoir (not modeled, like I said, but those gray cylinders on the top are threaded screws for it to be place over) blows air through the pipes. The air goes through whatever pipe it's in and is expelled out that 3x3 area. It is heated by the copper in the process.

This is not passive cooling...there is air flowing through the pipes.

Copper and aluminum have very high thermal conductivities, but 1) you will never get the contact you can get with water so you are never going to have that thermal conductivity effectively and 2) any heatsink or waterblock built from copper or aluminum uses thermal paste, which has a thermal conductivity of under 10.

Again, the pipes aren't in contact with the CPU. I am not relying on the surface area of pipes contacting the CPU, but I am relying on the surface area of the pipe exposed to the mineral oil, which is a lot.
It air based cooling is still "passive" cooling. It's not actively removing heat from the soruce.

Thermal paste is used as a gap filler NOT as a means of conduction in it self. While it has a lower thermal conductivity, you are not making a block out of the paste.

I understand the pipes aren't in contact with the CPU. However, the performance of any air-based cooler is ultimately dependent on surface area. I can guarentee you that you don't have that much surface area. Have you calculated the value yet? If you want, give the dimensions of the block and I'll give you an estimate. I'm guessing 20 1/2"ID 5" long pipes?

2*pi*r*h= 314in^2

For comparision, the Thermalright TRUE:
Each fin: 2.5" * 5" = 12.5in^2... but the fins aren't exactly rectangular... so 10in^in per side. Therefore, each fin provides a surface area of around 20in^2

There are about 80-100 fins? That's 1600-2000in^2.
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post #15 of 53
I agree with the posts here about the effectiveness of oil in this application. But aside from that, consider the acoustics of this design. I cant imagine it will not hum like a harmonica or freight train lol But kudos to you for thinking outside the proverbial box !
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post #16 of 53
Duckie you have pm
post #17 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
It air based cooling is still "passive" cooling. It's not actively removing heat from the soruce.

Thermal paste is used as a gap filler NOT as a means of conduction in it self. While it has a lower thermal conductivity, you are not making a block out of the paste.

I understand the pipes aren't in contact with the CPU. However, the performance of any air-based cooler is ultimately dependent on surface area. I can guarentee you that you don't have that much surface area. Have you calculated the value yet? If you want, give the dimensions of the block and I'll give you an estimate. I'm guessing 20 1/2"ID 5" long pipes?

2*pi*r*h= 314in^2
Thermal paste is a means of conduction, it fills the gaps and inperfections between the CPU and heatsink and conducts heat between them where air would have before. Heat transfer through a tiny volume of thermal paste is quite inefficient.

I will do more accurate suface area calculations and get you a number. I think it's important to remember that the mineral oil surrounding the pipes amplifies the effectiveness of whatever surface area there is compared to a system surrounded by atmospheric air only.

Do you think a crapload of copper wires (so no fan) going through the reservoir and out to be cooled would be more effective? That would maximize surface area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkryz View Post
I agree with the posts here about the effectiveness of oil in this application. But aside from that, consider the acoustics of this design. I cant imagine it will not hum like a harmonica or freight train lol But kudos to you for thinking outside the proverbial box !
A single 120mm fan?
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post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Thermal paste is used as a gap filler NOT as a means of conduction in it self. While it has a lower thermal conductivity, you are not making a block out of the paste.
If thermal paste wasn't conductive, it wouldn't be used at all. Thermal paste reduces contact resistance and increased conductivity by acting as a medium for thermal conduction where air or other fluids(gases) would be instead.
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post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruboy View Post
I actually have zero idea about patenting an idea...doesn't it cost money? I don't have many moneys.
Self-filing runs an initial $60, then ~ $700. However, the $700 can usually be financed.

I have a total of three patents, one of which is an awesome product with no future.... an alkaline battery with infinite shelf life (long story).
post #20 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
If thermal paste wasn't conductive, it wouldn't be used at all. Thermal paste reduces contact resistance and increased conductivity by acting as a medium for thermal conduction where air or other fluids(gases) would be instead.
I never said thermal paste wasn't conductive.

I said it is used as a gap filler and not the primary method of conduction. While thermal conductivity is important, you also need to check the thermal resistence. Dimensions have an impact on thermal resistence.
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