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Help me understand HW Labs Radiators

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Their website is singularly unhelpful; no performance data, and not even a consistent listing of specifications across models.

Sticking to 120mm three fan models, there appear to be 4 general model: GT Xtreme, GT Stealth, Pro, Xtreme.

The GT Xtreme, GTX, appears to be the top of the line. It is the only dual core model, therefore thicker than the others. What exactly is a "two-pass pre-cool/aftercool front-rear dual-core flow"? Are both cores dual pass? Or does it pass through one core and then the next, each in a single pass? The spec says 20 fins per inch.

The GT Stealth is a single core, available in two pass and crossflow models. The cross flow are called XFlow. There are no performance numbers. Although a 'low restriction' design for 'silent' operation, it has 30 fins per inch, 50% more than the thicker GT Xtreme.

Then comes the Pro. Available in two pass and crossflow, both with a single core. No other meaningful specs.

Finally is the Xtreme, the famous BIX. Available in two pass and crossflow. Not a spec to be seen.

All very confusing.

Now, I was discussing some watercooling components and described what I was intending (A Thermochill PA120.3 with dual shrouds and 6 fans). I received some strong opinions.

Without getting to specifics, the Thermochill was described in terms a liberal New York Democrat reserves for George Bush. Then the BIX was recommended--I still need to ask if dual pass or crossflow--and the GTX (popular here) was dismissed with terms that liberal New Yorker may reserve for the senior President Bush.

Quote:
"The BIX has 70% more fin area that a TC rad and will easily beat the TC rad in heat rejection, if fanned properly, at 40% of the price of a TC rad."
Please give me your insights.

Thanks,

David

P.S.
What do you think of this shroud contruction, I thought it was simple and rather clever:
Quote:
"[Setup the radiators] in a draw through with 3/8" long nylon spacers between the fan and the rad to create a larger fan suction side plenum (more air flow at the same RPM with less noise). Seal the gap between the rad and fans created by the spacer with bloack duct tape. If you take your time you can get a very neat and clean sealing job that just blends in."
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post #2 of 11
GTX and GTS replaced the BIX and BIP respectively

Yeah, the lack of testing data is unhelpful but I can assure you their GTX line is the top of the line for all brands. X-Flow is a single pass radiator for decreased restriction, but the regular ones are the ones you want, not all that restrictive.

I wouldn't even consider the BIP and BIX right now personally unless your on a tighter buudget.

Yeah, you can use tape, seal it well for a shroud. Or I use old 38mm fans because the optimal depth is about 1.5".

So just remember GTX>GTS, and the longer the better

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.
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post #3 of 11
The BIX and GTX are both double row rads...A 2 pass has both barbs on the same end, the flow goes down one side then up the other...A single pass flow just goes through it once...I think about the only real single pass is the PA.160, the others just flip the end caps around, they have abarb on either end cap....I'd stick with a dual pass for better heat dissipation, if having a barb on either end would help your configuaration you might think about getting one, but I would try to stick with a 2-pass....

The GTX flow is a little different then any other rad as it goes from front to back instead of from side to side..They will work well even with lower cfm fans but I would go for a good 120x38mm like this at least..86 cfm Pana....I use these and 108 Sunon on mine..115cfm Pana.....

The BIX is a good old rad but it works best with 100+ cfm fans, the PA would only beat it by a C or two with high cfm fans...

The GTS is supposed to be pretty restrictive flow wise from the only review I've seen on it...But it out performs the BIX by a few C with 100+ cfm fans on it to...It has a high fin per inch count so I would use some decent 120x38mm fans on it for their higher pressure, I suggest them on any Hi PO rad because i think the scavenge air through the rad better...

This test shows the GTX beating the PA with 47+ cfm fans, under that the PA wins...360 GTX>PA.3 with 47+cfm fans

This is some shroud testing I did on my 480 GTX....Part 1-Temp's With and With-Out Shrouds - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

This I did because I was bored one day..480GTX Heat Load Test ......I'm using un-calibrated probes so its just the way mine performed that day, nothing more or less....But I'm getting a 4.0C something rad out to room ambient delta with around a 500W load on it, 10C and under is considered good....
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post #4 of 11
hope this helps (super secret HWL docs)

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post #5 of 11
so that's where they get those random BS quotes from when we emailed them, LOLLLL

Thanks! They really make no sense though.
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post #6 of 11
Here's a sketch I made a while back of a GTX480 rad and how its flow goes from the inlet barb across the back half of the rad on the initial pass and then turns around and comes back on the front half of the rad on the return to the outlet barb.



Hope that helps !
post #7 of 11
I concur...the website specs are loaded with headliners..

Stuff like 50% less pressure drop...yet they are talking about "AIR" not hydraulics like we would expect.

No pressure drop data or c/w curves to help anyone figure out what a flow rate might be or heat dissipated. Claims like a 1000 watt radiator mean nothing at ALL. You can make an MCR120 a 2000 watt radiator if the water is hot enough.

Anyhow, I have no question they make great radiators, but their lack of good data is extremely frustrating. I can only see publishing good scientific data helping them (the GTX flow good and dissipates heat really well especially the 480 compared to any of the triples).

I do not understand...
    
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post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
I concur...the website specs are loaded with headliners..

Stuff like 50% less pressure drop...yet they are talking about "AIR" not hydraulics like we would expect.

No pressure drop data or c/w curves to help anyone figure out what a flow rate might be or heat dissipated. Claims like a 1000 watt radiator mean nothing at ALL. You can make an MCR120 a 2000 watt radiator if the water is hot enough.

Anyhow, I have no question they make great radiators, but their lack of good data is extremely frustrating. I can only see publishing good scientific data helping them (the GTX flow good and dissipates heat really well especially the 480 compared to any of the triples).

I do not understand...

thats why we just come to you martin

you provide the data they are too lazy or just unable to produce
    
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr4gon View Post
GTX and GTS replaced the BIX and BIP respectively

Yeah, the lack of testing data is unhelpful but I can assure you their GTX line is the top of the line for all brands. X-Flow is a single pass radiator for decreased restriction, but the regular ones are the ones you want, not all that restrictive.

I wouldn't even consider the BIP and BIX right now personally unless your on a tighter buudget.

Yeah, you can use tape, seal it well for a shroud. Or I use old 38mm fans because the optimal depth is about 1.5".

So just remember GTX>GTS, and the longer the better

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.
Do you have some pictures of your shroud?
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post #10 of 11
Yeah maybe if I finally setup a good radiator testing setup, they will consider loaning me some samples to try. They just didn't seem interested in pressure drop testing at all.

After I get all my pump top testing done, I'm going to have some fun with this...
    
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