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Has Anyone Used a BIX and a GTX on the Same System?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Both by hardware labs. The GTX is newer, with a little more air and coolant restriction. Therefore, for a given fan/shroud and pump/water block configuration, the BIX should flow more air and coolant.

However, the question is which works better. If you have used both I really would like your imput!

Thanks,

David
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post #2 of 21
The GTX will perform better but both are good and will work even better together, no worries
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post #3 of 21
I've used both but not on the same loop...I used the 240 BIX and it was a good rad, you need 100+ cfm fans to get the most out of it, you could probably get by with 86cfm Pana with-out it hurting your temp's much.The GTX will perform great with a lot lower cfm fans..I'd still run some decent 120x38mm fans for the higher pressure that they will pull.I had a 240 BIX and I'm using a 480 GTX so a direct comparison is kind of hard to do....

The only thing i can compare is the restriction of each from my pressure gauge and going by that I would say the 480 GTX is about as restrictive as a 360 BIX...

Go for a GTX if you can and if not grab a BIX, you wont be disappointed with either I wouldn't think...
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post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have been told by one informed source that the BIX actually works better. That the GTX is more restrictive to air flow. It is thicker, although they have similar fin counts. Also that the Stealth is VERY restrictive.

This test--http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
--which may be the best I've read, seems to confirm that, although not a GTX.

And this thread--http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...eme+III+X-Flow--has be concerned about HW quality.

In the review above, it indicates that the drop in water temp is an accurate measure of heat dissipated. Although in they indicate that .01 resolution is necessary because the total drop for 100s of watts is only a degree, Your pull only seems to have a greater water temp drop (1.275 vs 1.025) even though the CPU ran hotter (21.125C drop vs 23.375C drop below ambient). Do you have a hypothesis why that occurred? Their might be a problem with the 1.275 number, however it would still be greater than the push pull number.

Thanks,

David
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post #5 of 21
HW makes some quality gear, I have to admit I didn't read all that link, looks like he is making a triple pass...
I was running un-calibrated probes in that test that may be the difference...

This rad review seems to back up my flow guess...360 GTX Beats PA.3 Using 47cfm YL Fans....

I'm guessing on it from these 2 readings, different blocks, but I think its pretty close...




WC'ing is really pretty simple David, over pump with a reasonable heat dump (under 30W) over rad, over fan and get a good block...Thats basically all there is to it...Get the best parts that you can afford...The rest of it is something that you will only learn by doing it...All the top gear is pretty comparable...The execution and tweaking on your loop is where the magic begins...Components are just components, the way you use them is waht makes a great loop....

I've read that article also...The GTS puzzles me really,the restriction I think is their way of forcing a turbulent filming action in the rad, the high fin count of course is for more heat dissipation....I've heard a couple of guys say that the BIP works better then the GTS, but on that French review site they show the GTS out performing the BIX w/100+cfm fans, so I don't see how that can be true since the BIX kills a BIP...The BIP is a pretty good little rad and scales well from low to high cfm fans...360 BIP Testing
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post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
What was interesting in the French review is the testing environment. It had the accuracy and controllablity most don't. They also talked about the details of the products that other tests miss. The only other comparable test I've seen is a paper from 2005 on the Swiftech site. But that is corrupted by the use of different nozzles on a BIX X-Flow.

What always throws me is when a radiator change here gets reported a 3-5°C temperature change at the CPU.

I am wondering where the Feser, Aqua Evo, and XSPC come in. All from companies that seem to know a thing or two about water cooling. Aqua has their monitoring software/hardware, and XSPC is the only one with an engineered top (according to the specs in Martin's test). And the Feser seemed to have low flow resistance in Martin's test, although it may be a bear in air resistance.
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post #7 of 21
Yeah they did some good testing...The reason you don't see more of it is the cost....That and thermal testing can be pretty mis-leading since there are so many variables when you get them out of a lab enviroment..The end users results can and will vary........Bill Adams used to do some great work but he has been working for Swiftech for several years now....

Most of the German gear used to be optimized for 1/4" tubing...Marcuss told me they have started making some of it for 3/8" and 1/2" tubing cross sections now...That will help, you don't want to mix high flow and low flow gear in the same loop, not to good temp's....

This stuff has been engineered to death for years now, there just isn't over a few C's difference in temp's anymore between the same class of rad's and blocks..The only magic left is how the end user tweaks and optimizes their loop...There are just a few basics for safety sake and the rest is up to the end user...

Flow rate isn't as important as it used to be since most the newer blocks aren't as flow dependent as the used to be, some will still benifit with more gpm, the more restrictive jet impingement type...I still like to keep my flow over 2gpm because i think it helps OC'ing...I'd keep it at least 1.5gpm so your flow want turn laminar...

Over pump (with a decent heat dump) over rad, over fan and get a good block, that will get you close to as a good of temp's as anyone...The rest you will figure out through playing with it...The fans that you use will have a big impact...Even the PA dissipates its advertised wattage with 100+cfm fans...I don't know how well they would respond to push-pull since they are a really low fin per inch rad....

Its fun to play with......Just start trying different things and see how it affects your temp's...A block mount can have a big affect on temp's..I usually mount at least 4 or 5 times on a new block to see what kind of temp's I should get with it then work back to the lowest temp that I got...Thats the fun of WC'ing to me, tweaking...
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post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
You are right, however there are many weak implementations.

Question: what are the block mounting issues? Orientation and pressure seem to be the only ones I can think of, and pressure should pretty much be as much as you can get. And thermal grease, where the issues and questions are about Coollabortory.
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post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidNJ View Post
I have been told by one informed source that the BIX actually works better. That the GTX is more restrictive to air flow. It is thicker, although they have similar fin counts. Also that the Stealth is VERY restrictive.

This test--http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
--which may be the best I've read, seems to confirm that, although not a GTX.

And this thread--http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...eme+III+X-Flow--has be concerned about HW quality.

In the review above, it indicates that the drop in water temp is an accurate measure of heat dissipated. Although in they indicate that .01 resolution is necessary because the total drop for 100s of watts is only a degree, Your pull only seems to have a greater water temp drop (1.275 vs 1.025) even though the CPU ran hotter (21.125C drop vs 23.375C drop below ambient). Do you have a hypothesis why that occurred? Their might be a problem with the 1.275 number, however it would still be greater than the push pull number.

Thanks,

David

Yeah, that's a good review, I can only wish I had an environmental chamber and probes that accurate. I think they even had resolution to .001C.

If you calculate the specific heat of water on a 1.5GPM flow rate you'll find you actually need even more than that amount of heat dissipated for 1 degree. Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's in the 350-390 watt range. But that's why water works so well for cooling, it has an amazing ability to store energy.

As far as GTX vs BIX, this article does actually compare them. Not quite to the coolingmaster level of equipment, but still very useful and the first I've seen.

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

According to this and also consistent with what Ira found, the GTX is a little better with pressure drop than the BIX. Not a whole bunch, but a little (BIX = "Lite"). Also not the GTS results are consistent with the PD results of the coolingmaster review. I still don't understand why, but the GTS is more restrictive.



Also a little better at dissipating heat.


Possibly because of the improvements to pressure drop of the fins. HWlabs indicates a 50% lower pressure drop and I believe they are referring to air. They use thinner tubes on the GTX, which probably helps both for air flow and heat transfer of the tubes.

I may get a chance to at least pressure drop test the whole line in a few weeks, so I'll be able to confirm some of these testing with my own
    
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post #10 of 21
I don't think that "GTX Lite" is a BIX Martin, unless they changed out the end tanks and sold it in Europe, which wouldn't surprise me to much...

Check out the end tanks and you'll see what I mean...





And remember this from the French review? It shows the GTS ahead of the BIX by a bit, more so as cfm increases, which is to be expected with all those fins it has.But in the German review the GTX Lite was out performing the GTS..It wouldn't surprise me if the BIX pulled back ahead when they hit a 100cfm or so...They were using those "Cooling Works" BIP and BIX clones...That little GTS is a good dissipating rad for a single row rad, looks pretty restrictive but if your using a Fuzion and a Swifty 60 it should get decent flow...



I hope they get you those rads to flow test, I really want to know how restrictive that GTS is..And when you start doing some thermals how about doing your Bonnie core first for a base-line so we can see how all these "High Po" rads really stack up.....I have another Chevette core somewhere that I'm not using that I can send you for the thermal tests, I'm sure it flows about like a Bonnie....You've got me excited about the thermal testing, look forward to seeing it....
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