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[CPC] Nvidia tries to buy VIA to get x86 license - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post
There must be some way they can simply buy the license from intel as VIA and AMD have.

Or they could just start making the chips and pay out any law suits...
I thought x86 was public domain by now... ridiculous.
I believe AMD and Cyrix both got the x86 license when they were making Intel's CPU's, but I can't find much about Intel's x86 licensing methods on the internet. x86 CPU's are not public domain, and you have to have a license from Intel in order to make them.

So if nVidia wants to make windows compatible CPU's, they basically have to buy either AMD or VIA.

If anyone can find out anything more specific about Intel's licensing terms that would be nice.
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post #22 of 30
According to Wikipedia they manufactured a x86 CPU in the past, the M6117C
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post
I believe AMD and Cyrix both got the x86 license when they were making Intel's CPU's, but I can't find much about Intel's x86 licensing methods on the internet. x86 CPU's are not public domain, and you have to have a license from Intel in order to make them.

So if nVidia wants to make windows compatible CPU's, they basically have to buy either AMD or VIA.

If anyone can find out anything more specific about Intel's licensing terms that would be nice.
AMD has one because they used to be a division of Intel before a legal suite broke the 2 companies apart. I don't know about VIA though.
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post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
AMD has one because they used to be a division of Intel before a legal suite broke the 2 companies apart. I don't know about VIA though.
VIA got theirs because they bought Cyrix from National Semiconductor Company, who had previously acquired Cyrix. If you want to know how Cyrix got theirs.

Quote:
Unlike AMD, Cyrix had never manufactured or sold Intel designs under a negotiated license. Cyrix's designs were the result of meticulous in-house reverse engineering. So while AMD's 386s and even 486s had some Intel-written microcode software, Cyrix's designs were completely independent. Focused on removing potential competitors, Intel spent many years in legal battles with Cyrix, claiming that the Cyrix 486 violated Intel's patents.

By and large, Intel lost the Cyrix case. But the final settlement was out of court: Intel agreed that Cyrix had the right to produce their own x86 designs in any foundry that happened to already hold an Intel license. Both firms gained out of this: Cyrix could carry on having their CPUs made by Texas Instruments, SGS Thomson, or IBM, all holders of Intel cross-licenses; Intel avoided a potentially embarrassing loss.

The follow-on 1997 Cyrix-Intel litigation was the reverse: instead of Intel claiming that Cyrix 486 chips violated their patents, now Cyrix claimed that Intel's Pentium Pro and Pentium II violated Cyrix patents—in particular, power management and register renaming techniques. The case was expected to drag on for years but was settled quite promptly, by another mutual cross-license agreement. Intel and Cyrix now had full and free access to each other's patents. The settlement didn't say whether the Pentium Pro violated Cyrix patents or not; it simply allowed Intel to carry on making them either way—exactly as the previous settlement sidestepped Intel's claim that the Cyrix 486 violated Intel patents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrix#Legal_troubles
post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Thats not really the point. They are going to make CPU with integrated GPU that can do some work that the CPU would normally do but since its a GPU it would be many times faster. This means in certain operations said CPU would be immensely more powerful.
Yeah, it would be like having a 128 core CPU, as the shaders on a GPU are like Cores on a CPU.
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
Yeah, it would be like having a 128 core CPU, as the shaders on a GPU are like Cores on a CPU.
No not exactly since they can't handle central (for the C in CPU) data. The GPU core would be counted as a single core, then that core is only used in certain circumstances. If the data could be processed in a GPU, then it will go to the GPU core, otherwise it gos to the CPU core(s.) Really ingenious concept.
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post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
Yeah, it would be like having a 128 core CPU, as the shaders on a GPU are like Cores on a CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
No not exactly since they can't handle central (for the C in CPU) data. The GPU core would be counted as a single core, then that core is only used in certain circumstances. If the data could be processed in a GPU, then it will go to the GPU core, otherwise it gos to the CPU core(s.) Really ingenious concept.
Right...not quite the same...

But perhaps that makes the GPU "CPU" more powerful.

Current CPU cores are semi symmetical units. Each core has cache, an FPU, an ALU - or perhaps multiple of each. This allows different programs to run off each core without a hitch. A GPU, on the other hand, has "shaders". I believe that's a fancy name for an FPU that has direct access to the onboard memory, or something like that. There's only one GPU - one core - but the core is so massively powerful, that it can process every task at the same time. It has so many FPUs that it could easily process data for 50 threads or processes without getting close to its capacity.

...assuming the main core can manage moving all that info around.

Now ALU operations might take a hit, but the modern GPU has more than enough FPU power for any task. A properly utilized GPU could probably encode video at 20x the speed of the current quad-cores(conservative/low estimate). That's probably why Intel won't ever give nVidia an x86 license. Letting your competitor make a product 20x faster than yours(and cheaper) is a bad idea - especially if nobody realizes that the tech is there, so it's not like they'd complain if you didn't do it.
     
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post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
AMD has one because they used to be a division of Intel before a legal suite broke the 2 companies apart. I don't know about VIA though.
AMD was separate before that. WAY before

IBM wanted intel to have another company that could manufacture compatible CPUs to ensure that there wouldn't be any supply issues.

Quote:
In February 1982, AMD signed a contract with Intel, becoming a licensed second-source manufacturer of 8086 and 8088 processors. IBM wanted to use the Intel 8088 in its IBM PC, but IBM's policy at the time was to require at least two sources for its chips. AMD later produced the Am286 under the same arrangement, but Intel canceled the agreement in 1986 and refused to convey technical details of the i386 part.

AMD challenged Intel's decision to cancel the agreement and won in arbitration, but Intel disputed this decision. A long legal dispute followed, ending in 1994 when the Supreme Court of California sided with AMD. Subsequent legal disputes centered on whether AMD had legal rights to use derivatives of Intel's microcode. In the face of uncertainty, AMD was forced to develop "clean room" versions of Intel code.

In 1991, AMD released the Am386, its clone of the Intel 386 processor. It took less than a year for the company to sell a million units. Later, the Am486 was used by a number of large OEMs, including Compaq, and proved popular. Another Am486-based product, the Am5x86, continued AMD's success as a low-price alternative. However, as product cycles shortened in the PC industry, the process of reverse engineering Intel's products became an ever less viable strategy for AMD.
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post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheetos316 View Post
Not that I'm on Intel's side but do keep in mind that Intel did put quite a bit of work on developing the x86 code so it is understandable that they don't want to just give it out to everyone for free. I'm not sure sure that even if Nvidia bought Via that they would automatically acquire the x86 liscense. I remember reading a while back the possibility that Nvidia was thinking about acquiring AMD but that the liscenses cannot be transferred.
That was exactly what I was thinking of. But, which institute gives the x86 licence? and why nvidia can't get it in a normal way?
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post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SZayat View Post
That was exactly what I was thinking of. But, which institute gives the x86 licence? and why nvidia can't get it in a normal way?
no not really.
x86 was considered mediocre the day it came out.

what has been developed is the REST of everything and the software.
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