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[oxford] ‘Digital piracy’ may benefit companies - Page 6

post #51 of 78
I'll admit that the Ferarri analogy is lacking, it was an exaggeration generated in the heat of the moment to emphasize my point: stealing is stealing, period. I absolutely reject every argument made so far that making an illegal copy is not, in fact, stealing. What is being stolen is the use of the software. The privilege to use that software carries a cost; and if someone is unwilling to pay that cost, they should not get to use the software. Maybe it would help get your arms around my point if you view software as a service that must be paid for, not a tangible product. That makes perfect sense in the modern era of digital downloads, where physical boxes and manuals are as rare as a dodo bird.

The difficulty here is that clearly too many people do not thjink of digital assets as being "real". It's the same mentality that makes people argue that there's nothing wrong with using someone's unprotected Wi-Fi signal for free, despite being clearly, undeniably, undebatably illegal in every way, shape, or form. But no one is being "harmed", the unwitting host is not "losing anything", so an army of people argue that it's okay. It's madness, people. In that case, you are stealing service someone else has paid for. In the piracy case, you are stealing a software asset that must be paid for to use.
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post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
What is being stolen is the use of the software. The privilege to use that software carries a cost; and if someone is unwilling to pay that cost, they should not get to use the software. Maybe it would help get your arms around my point if you view software as a service that must be paid for, not a tangible product. That makes perfect sense in the modern era of digital downloads, where physical boxes and manuals are as rare as a dodo bird.

The difficulty here is that clearly too many people do not thjink of digital assets as being "real". It's the same mentality that makes people argue that there's nothing wrong with using someone's unprotected Wi-Fi signal for free, despite being clearly, undeniably, undebatably illegal in every way, shape, or form. But no one is being "harmed", the unwitting host is not "losing anything", so an army of people argue that it's okay. It's madness, people. In that case, you are stealing service someone else has paid for. In the piracy case, you are stealing a software asset that must be paid for to use.
That analogy also fails, in that one would be using someone else's service (not their own copy), and the host would be losing bandwidth. The perpetrator is stealing bandwidth as he/she isn't able to duplicate the bandwidth and use it for him/herself, as strange as that may sound.

To illustrate this without an analogy would be trial versions of software that require the input of a valid licence key after a certain period of time in order to continue using them without limitations. The programs are downloaded (copied) legally, but once a crack is used, continued usage is illegal. You can call that "stealing the use of software" if you wish, but it's merely illegal usage. It's different from using someone else's unprotected Wi-Fi connection, because you're using your own copy without having a detrimental effect to other people's experience. You could argue that without paying for its usage the companies may end up in bankruptcy and paying customers could no longer continue buying the software, but then we're right back to square one.
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post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Absolute drivel. The seller is always harmed when someone steals their goods. If I want a Ferarri but can't afford one, I don't get to steal it and claim the seller wasn't harmed because I would never have actually bought one. Trying to argue that it's a digital asset and not a physical asset is just an attempt to justify the theft.
here's the thing though, they're not stealing, they're duplicating.
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post #54 of 78
I agree with you Vulcan. Stealing is indeed stealing.

However, if at the end of the day it has no effect on a companies income statement, no one should care.
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post #55 of 78
But guys, it's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.
post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hundred Gunner View Post
But guys, it's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.
wow.

I don't believe copyrights should be enforced if you can prove that you had no intentiopn of buying it in the first place. Not to mention, things like photoshop are tools. not games. If you pirate photoshop to messa round with some pictures, and do not turn a profit on your use of photoshop... I hardly see why Adobe is entitled to money from you.

High end graphics studios are the ones buying photoshop.
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post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post
wow.

I don't believe copyrights should be enforced if you can prove that you had no intentiopn of buying it in the first place. Not to mention, things like photoshop are tools. not games. If you pirate photoshop to messa round with some pictures, and do not turn a profit on your use of photoshop... I hardly see why Adobe is entitled to money from you.

High end graphics studios are the ones buying photoshop.
If you don't see how Adobe is entitled to compensation then you have serious logic flaws.
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post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
I'll admit that the Ferarri analogy is lacking, it was an exaggeration generated in the heat of the moment to emphasize my point: stealing is stealing, period. I absolutely reject every argument made so far that making an illegal copy is not, in fact, stealing. What is being stolen is the use of the software. The privilege to use that software carries a cost; and if someone is unwilling to pay that cost, they should not get to use the software. Maybe it would help get your arms around my point if you view software as a service that must be paid for, not a tangible product. That makes perfect sense in the modern era of digital downloads, where physical boxes and manuals are as rare as a dodo bird.

The difficulty here is that clearly too many people do not thjink of digital assets as being "real". It's the same mentality that makes people argue that there's nothing wrong with using someone's unprotected Wi-Fi signal for free, despite being clearly, undeniably, undebatably illegal in every way, shape, or form. But no one is being "harmed", the unwitting host is not "losing anything", so an army of people argue that it's okay. It's madness, people. In that case, you are stealing service someone else has paid for. In the piracy case, you are stealing a software asset that must be paid for to use.
Haha vulcan it lookes like its not your day for analogies lol. But seriously music copying is such a big gray area. But I mean it doesnt matter what anyone thinks or says in this forums people will still use limewire and, rapid share and all of those things to get free copies of media. Like all your arguing about here is wither or not it hurts anyone. I personaly dont think that it hurts anyone.

I mean look at Stardock. They made Galactic Civ 2 and Sins Of a Solar Empire and they dont but any copy right stuff on it. People buy their games because there worth it. Because their know their worth the 50$ or so that they are charging.
    
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post #59 of 78
Those of you arguing that pirating promotes a company are missing the fact that if the company truly wanted to get their product out to young people, they would charge measly amounts of money for it. It's a win-win situation that way. But, that is not the case, and so your point is moot. Company's will train people on software they need to be used; if you don't use what the company is using, you usually have to change.

And people need to quit saying there is a gray area. It is either stealing, or it isn't. You can't claim there is a gray area to make yourself feel better about doing something morally wrong. To do so is just a lame excuse-making exercise in self-assurance.
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post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
Those of you arguing that pirating promotes a company are missing the fact that if the company truly wanted to get their product out to young people, they would charge measly amounts of money for it. It's a win-win situation that way. But, that is not the case, and so your point is moot. Company's will train people on software they need to be used; if you don't use what the company is using, you usually have to change.
The fact is there are cheap versions of software, but certain features are missing due to the different target market. They can't give the same (low) price tag to two products that are exactly the same, otherwise they wouldn't be gaining much profit from business volume licensing which is their main source of revenue. Also, the fact remains that despite low cost software, there are those who would never buy it.

As for companies providing training, training costs money. The current situation of software piracy leads to unintended by-products of virtually free promotion, and to a lesser degree familiarity with the software. It would probably cost more to fight this piracy than leave the situation as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
And people need to quit saying there is a gray area. It is either stealing, or it isn't.
It's not stealing; it's copyright infringement.
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