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[Maximum PC] AMD Phenom X4 9850 Reviewed - Page 4

post #31 of 35
Phenom is a decent chip I suppose but I just have to lol at AMD for all their marketing crap, they made us think Phenom would be greater than it really was. Turns out it's slightly better than their dual-cores in general.
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post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by danewfie View Post
The only difference between an integrated vs non integrated memory controller is that it is much quicker to talk to memory if its integrated.
Exactly...

Hypothetical:

AMD processors have a total of 4mbs of combined L2 and L3 cache
Intel Procs have 12

Amd Processors are Native quad cores, and don't use an FSB-type architecture, so all data transfers occur on-die, which reduces latency.

Intel processors are MCMs, and the cores have to (if i remember correctly) send data through the northbridge of the motherboard to be able to talk to each other. <-- slow process

so lets say that, hypothetically the intel's procs perform something like 3 read/write ops per cycle on the L2 cache

Now, as we both know AMD's processors latency between the cores and the cache is drastically lower, lets put their ops/cycle at 9.

4x9=36
3x12=36
See my point?

Now, I know these numbers are made up, so you don't have to call me on it, but they're a fairly accurate representation of the real life workings going on in the procs.
AMD wouldn't consciously put a bottleneck onto their processor cores.... The L2/L3 cache on AMD procs isn't the problem, it's the architecture, but they'll get it figured out soon enough, just wait

I've got my money on the 45nm Phenom X3s... if the 65nm X4 B3's can hit 3.0ghz, then I'm willing to bet that a 45nm part, with one less core will be able to clock much higher due to the lower heat output.

They will be faster than the dual core C2Ds, and probably be priced less too. which is perfect for me
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post #33 of 35
Sadly that didnt make sense.

You cant say 3 cycles times 12 meg = 36
and 9 cycles times 4 meg = 36

its more like ... x cycles with x nanoseconds latency and x seconds for every ram fetch

lets say both amd and and intel do same number of cycles with different latency and they have to pull 6 megs of data thru.

then intel would be 4 cycles @ .08 nanoseconds with no fetch to ram.
and amd would be 4 cycles @ .03 nanoseconds with a fetch to ram. lets say 1.5 nanoseconds.

This is where the cache takes into play. If the proc is required to constantly grab data not in the cache, you have an increased delay because its always grabbing from ram. However if the proc can keep grabbing info from cache the delay is alot less.

In most apps today you cant account for processors having alot of cache because its not needed. However if you are running an application that is always grabbing data then a larger cache really helps out.

This is so off topic .. my bad.
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post #34 of 35
And apperantly an entire programs data can fit on a 12 megabyte cache? are you serious?

both processors are going to be making fetches CONSTANTLY, the intel's fetches are going to take more time, but they are going to happen slightly less often, AMDs fetching take drastically less time to complete, but they will happen more often.

It evens out. AMD's proc's dont need any more cache space.

like many other posters have said, the tiny.... TINY benefit AMD procs will get from increased cache space will not justify their manufacturing costs...
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post #35 of 35
why havnt people understood yet that AMD wants the HTPC business!! what do think spider is all about? 780G? HDCP, a decent quad that is fairly quiet, not high heat, and decent integrated graphics. alright, so they dont clock well, but thats only a problem for the high end people. 90% of the market wont overclock but the ones that do are 100x louder. AMD may be loosing money but they really arent that dumb. AMD is moving away from the top of the line, 1k+ proc and instead are directing there ideas into $100-$200 procs that perform well and dont need anything extra. its kinda a slap from the FX 55, 57 days but it should work because i think HTPC owners are on the rise while high end percents usually dont change. i say give it a year, let them work out a few things, get this actually shipped, and AMD should be profitable again.
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