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position of reservoir - Page 4

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
Shroom is right, the tank is up there to provide static pressure and store pressure energy, we do that because it's stored energy like a battery.
No, we have a lake for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post
That's not a closed loop.
Yes it is.

Emphasis on WELL.
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post #32 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
Those were my thoughts as well, but after several pump tests, I've seen a few oddballed things that don't line up....For example, Why does the EK x-res top have Significant vortex problems at high restriction (High Suction) as I've captured in this video.

There is probably also some pressures interal to the pump and impeller that are much higher than what we can measure. The sound of cavitation after a well bled loop is pretty obvious to me.
First off, let me say that the work you've done on your spreadsheet is truly impressive, not so much the data you've generated, but how you've arranged what you have learned into something extremely understandable and usable for the WCing community. Keep up the fantastic work!

As for the vortex formation at low flow rates/high pressures, I'd suggest that it is not so much a pressure issue as a turbulence/rez design issue. Vortex formation may/may not be occurring at median flow rates simply because of turbulence patterns inside the rez.

I've done some work designing a device to aid in bleeding. In this work I tried to increase vortexing. I found that the shape of the floor of the rez (yes, a round rez!) had a great effect on vortex formation, without changing anything other than the shape of the floor.

Operating a pump at the limits of it's performance specification will increase the chance of cavitation. Things like keeping the inlet connection large and flooded become more critical. There's a great marketing hoax going on in the WCing parts industry. The nOObs all think that the flow rate of a pump is the primary purchasing criteria (a logical assumption on the face of it). So pumps with flow rates of 300+ GPH are offered. You know, from your work, that the typical Wcing system isn't going to flow 3-5 GPM, so these pumps are all operating well below their rated capacity with all the attendant inefficiencies that implies. For example, they just churn the water (adding no actual "work" to increace flow)) and thereby adding excessive heat from the motor which is expending "work" but not transferring it to the water. Pump designs with 1/2 the flow rate and double the pressure (the Iwaki "Z" series?) would be more appropriate. Of course a pump specifically designed for WCing would be assumed to be designed to have it's operational parameters match our requirements. But then, this is a small market so that ain't gonna happ'n!

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post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
No, we have a lake for that.
Your lake is up on the hill next to the watertank?

Watertanks are there actually for two reasons, one is the pump so it doesn't have to be extraordinarily large to keep up with peak demand and the second is many watersources are wells and there's a fix maximum you can pull from the well.

What do you do if you peak out more than you can pump or draw, you store it...in a watertank on the hill..
    
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post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post
First off, let me say that the work you've done on your spreadsheet is truly impressive, not so much the data you've generated, but how you've arranged what you have learned into something extremely understandable and usable for the WCing community. Keep up the fantastic work!

As for the vortex formation at low flow rates/high pressures, I'd suggest that it is not so much a pressure issue as a turbulence/rez design issue. Vortex formation may/may not be occurring at median flow rates simply because of turbulence patterns inside the rez.

I've done some work designing a device to aid in bleeding. In this work I tried to increase vortexing. I found that the shape of the floor of the rez (yes, a round rez!) had a great effect on vortex formation, without changing anything other than the shape of the floor.

Operating a pump at the limits of it's performance specification will increase the chance of cavitation. Things like keeping the inlet connection large and flooded become more critical. There's a great marketing hoax going on in the WCing parts industry. The nOObs all think that the flow rate of a pump is the primary purchasing criteria (a logical assumption on the face of it). So pumps with flow rates of 300+ GPH are offered. You know, from your work, that the typical Wcing system isn't going to flow 3-5 GPM, so these pumps are all operating well below their rated capacity with all the attendant inefficiencies that implies. For example, they just churn the water (adding no actual "work" to increace flow)) and thereby adding excessive heat from the motor which is expending "work" but not transferring it to the water. Pump designs with 1/2 the flow rate and double the pressure (the Iwaki "Z" series?) would be more appropriate. Of course a pump specifically designed for WCing would be assumed to be designed to have it's operational parameters match our requirements. But then, this is a small market so that ain't gonna happ'n!
That's interesting, great work!!

I just got another reservoir sample to look over and it's got a whole bunch of different baffles in it....there is alot more to reservoir design than I thought. Was testing the Alphacool restop on the DDC late last night and had a heck of a time preventing vortexing.
    
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post #35 of 65
Quote:
I beg to differ.
In the attached, with the closed loops, the pump sees the same inlet and outlet pressures whether the rez in open or closed. And in both instances whatever is lost to gravity on the way up, is gained back on the way down.
Your right I should of said pressurized...Mine will generally hold 3 or 4 psi for a day or so after the pump is turned off...

When I bleed a bay res I lay the rad down flat at the back of the case, I always have the rad external, I'll prop the front of the case up 4 or 5" and fill it up...It will be 90% filled before I ever flip the pump on the first time, shake the rad a couple of time and and rock the box side to side and front to back and its bleed...It actually bleeds almost instantly, a odd bubble will come out for the next 5 minutes or so...Everything is angled towards the res like that and the res barbs are covered at all times...Thats why I like it up higher...

The way I have mine set up now its even faster, it has a 3/4" suction line and the res is about 18" directly over it with 4 gallons or so of coolant in it...

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post #36 of 65
ira-k...that is definitely some mad scientist stuff you got going on there.

i never was able to see any activity opn my pressure gauge...just never got it to work.
    
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post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sli_shroom View Post
ira-k...that is definitely some mad scientist stuff you got going on there.

i never was able to see any activity opn my pressure gauge...just never got it to work.
Yeah its fun...

Huh...What pump were you using? Did you put it close to the pump out-let?
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post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post
Operating a pump at the limits of it's performance specification will increase the chance of cavitation. Things like keeping the inlet connection large and flooded become more critical. There's a great marketing hoax going on in the WCing parts industry. The nOObs all think that the flow rate of a pump is the primary purchasing criteria (a logical assumption on the face of it). So pumps with flow rates of 300+ GPH are offered. You know, from your work, that the typical Wcing system isn't going to flow 3-5 GPM, so these pumps are all operating well below their rated capacity with all the attendant inefficiencies that implies. For example, they just churn the water (adding no actual "work" to increase flow)) and thereby adding excessive heat from the motor which is expending "work" but not transferring it to the water. Pump designs with 1/2 the flow rate and double the pressure (the Iwaki "Z" series?) would be more appropriate. Of course a pump specifically designed for WCing would be assumed to be designed to have it's operational parameters match our requirements. But then, this is a small market so that ain't gonna happ'n!
In Martin's tests, both the XSPC Restop DDC 3.2 and the Iwaki RD-30 had peak efficiency around 2 gal/min. However, that was 5psi for the DDC3.2, and3.5psi for the Iwaki. In the spreadsheet, a single CPU loop will flow around 2 gal/min with the the XSPC Restop, so it probably does operate close to peak efficiency.

Do you mount your radiator inlet on top to facilitate bleeding?
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post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
Yeah its fun...

Huh...What pump were you using? Did you put it close to the pump out-let?
...hijack warning....


d5 vario turned all the way up. it was screwed into the t where my sensor is now, so it was about 3" from the pump outlet.

using air i was able to verify that the gauge did indeed work. at the time i figured there was air getting trapped in the fitting or something, but i even unscrewed it a bit to bleed the air out.

may have to give it another try again the next time i bleed my loop.
    
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post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sli_shroom View Post
...hijack warning....


d5 vario turned all the way up. it was screwed into the t where my sensor is now, so it was about 3" from the pump outlet.

using air i was able to verify that the gauge did indeed work. at the time i figured there was air getting trapped in the fitting or something, but i even unscrewed it a bit to bleed the air out.

may have to give it another try again the next time i bleed my loop.
That D-5 should have plenty of pressure for it to work...Yeah I'd just try it again and see what it does, it could of been stuck or something...It is a 15psi max right?

I really like running one, you can tell when your loop is getting plugged up and if your loop is air tight,you can tell at a glance if your pump is working right and if its working properly, stuff like that...Between it and my temp probes loop health is really easy to keep watch on...
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