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[Official] OCN Camera Thread - Page 2928

post #29271 of 29551
Most FF sensors, including low light "monsters" like the A7S, fall apart after ISO 6400-12800 roughly. The fact that you can "select" higher ISOs doesn't mean anything...the D5 has ISO 3 million (highest selectable in any camera right now), but is not the best high-ISO performer (or that close to being).

What is "usable" is a rubber band, based on the user. Some are willing to accept horrible (exaggerating here) colors, noise etc as long as they get the shot, others look at FF cameras @ ISO 800 and say I wish I could shoot that with less. Remember that most people still think their iphones/smartphones have the best cameras "evar". Criteria vary.

What is really happening is that we are pushing the boundary of "bad, not good" 1-2 stops every other generation of sensors...what was barely passable @ ISO 1600, became 3200 and now 6400. Maybe. ISO 400~800 are actually closer to "don't even think & go for it" than before, but higher than 1600 is still "avoid it if possible"...regardless of camera. The rest is there for marketing hype, and/or for extreme applications. For some might be there for video applications where most still shoot @ 2~8MP, not 20-30.

@Marin, I bet the ISO 6400 of that sucks...and stuck with a 90mm f/4...how unfortunate drool.gif
Edited by pcfoo - 8/1/16 at 9:50am
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post #29272 of 29551
Agreed. Interpolation of signal to noise ratio is what is important and this is where the digic7 processor playing with upgraded firmware shines.

For shots of the night sky I am finding that I have to keep ISO at 1600 or less with the 5D3. The 6D seems less noisey at 1600 so I just use the 6D for the night sky.

I am more excited at the prospect of getting another 5D3 on the used market than anything else. I shot a wedding recently and used three bodies. With the lenses I wanted to use, the aps-c was a pain in the arse.

With a 5D3, 6D, and 60D I took my 24-70, 100mm macro, and the 100-400. I used the 24-70 on the 5D3, the 100-400 on the 6D and the 100mm macro on the 60D.

It was ok, but aside from shots far away the macro didn't get used much. It was not a paid gig, more of a lesson for myself in a real setting. I have a lot to learn.

I went to Carlsbad Caverns the weekend before last and shot with the 24-70, 5D3, sirui k40x ball head on a modified tracker 2 tripod. Heavy and made me wish I had brought a wider lens. I was worried that my 16-35 would not have been sharp enough but in retrospect I should have taken it. The tripod and camera were heavy enough. I wasn't about to carry a bag with other gear plus I needed to be able to chase and catch my three year old. I found that I really had wished that I had an L-bracket to mount the camera in portrait as a lot of the objects were close and tall. Plenty of wide panoramic shots as well but the ones I found myself annoyed with not getting as well as I would have liked would have benefitted from an L bracket.
Edited by Dagamus NM - 8/1/16 at 10:18am
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post #29273 of 29551
My Greek background has weddings & christenings alike happening almost exclusively indoors, in dimly lit churches, usually with no artificial lighting allowed.
FF cameras are uncontested, given you can afford the cost and weight of the glass, as with cameras like the 6D or a used 5D2, bodies are not insanely more expensive than a good APS-C option.

APS-C handheld in low light cannot really shine without really fast glass...if you want zooms that pretty much limits you to Sigma's 18-35mm f/1.8 and 50-100mm f/1.8 DC pair. That will bring you almost inline with a FF kit with f/2.8 zooms, and although far from cheap, both cost ~ as much as a 24-70 f/2.8 alone. Of course regardless of sensor size, having 2x bodies, 1 each dedicated to your standard & tele zooms respectively is making a huge difference.

I have used a EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS to cover such events with both a 20D and a 50D, but it was tough, and ofc 10y later that is still the fastest / best low light APS-C lens from Canon. mad.gif
I been shooting pro-bono for friends that didn't care for fully pro coverage, so I never bought extra gear for that.
Edited by pcfoo - 8/1/16 at 10:23am
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post #29274 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post


@Marin, I bet the ISO 6400 of that sucks...and stuck with a 90mm f/4...how unfortunate drool.gif

*120mm f/5.6
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post #29275 of 29551
Hmm...impossible to tell the difference biggrin.gif
(tho that 5.6 is readable if you look for it, FAIL!)
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post #29276 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

My Greek background has weddings & christenings alike happening almost exclusively indoors, in dimly lit churches, usually with no artificial lighting allowed.
FF cameras are uncontested, given you can afford the cost and weight of the glass, as with cameras like the 6D or a used 5D2, bodies are not insanely more expensive than a good APS-C option.

APS-C handheld in low light cannot really shine without really fast glass...if you want zooms that pretty much limits you to Sigma's 18-35mm f/1.8 and 50-100mm f/1.8 DC pair. That will bring you almost inline with a FF kit with f/2.8 zooms, and although far from cheap, both cost ~ as much as a 24-70 f/2.8 alone. Of course regardless of sensor size, having 2x bodies, 1 each dedicated to your standard & tele zooms respectively is making a huge difference.

I have used a EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS to cover such events with both a 20D and a 50D, but it was tough, and ofc 10y later that is still the fastest / best low light APS-C lens from Canon. mad.gif
I been shooting pro-bono for friends that didn't care for fully pro coverage, so I never bought extra gear for that.

 

Loved mine. Too bad I needed the monies to buy a better 50mm and a 28mm for the 5D2 when I upgraded earlier on this year.

 

It's even more saddening that there's no real FF alternative... The 24-70 could be it, but it's too short and WAY too heavy. The 24-105 is a stop slower... And there really isn't a 24-105 f/2.8 (I don't want to imagine the sheer size of it)

   
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post #29277 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

Hmm...impossible to tell the difference biggrin.gif
(tho that 5.6 is readable if you look for it, FAIL!)

And the fact that MF only has that length. tongue.gif
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post #29278 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

Hmm...impossible to tell the difference biggrin.gif
(tho that 5.6 is readable if you look for it, FAIL!)

And the fact that MF only has that length. tongue.gif

Woa, I was convinced that the 90mm was actually a MF lens, just factory adapted to EF and other 35mm formats. Standing corrected facing the wall.. doh.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post


Loved mine. Too bad I needed the monies to buy a better 50mm and a 28mm for the 5D2 when I upgraded earlier on this year.

It's even more saddening that there's no real FF alternative... The 24-70 could be it, but it's too short and WAY too heavy. The 24-105 is a stop slower... And there really isn't a 24-105 f/2.8 (I don't want to imagine the sheer size of it)

Tamron & Nikon are producing 24-70 f/2.8s with image stabilization, so it is certainly possible to have a EF-S 17-55 IS equivalent.
What is saddening is how expensive the said Nikon 24-70 VR is vs its optical performance. The Tamron 24-70 VC is not that sharp for its price, but certainly a far better value at half the price of the Nikon...

Perhaps we were spoiled with the latest 16-35 f/4 IS/VR lenses from Nikon/Canon, and the superb 70-200L IS II, 100-400L II, Tamron 10-30 VC etc zooms that pretty much fooled us to believe that stabilization can be added without real compromises...unless standard zooms are the only exception tongue.gif

btw Nikon fanboys, I would be willing to bother myself with the different ergonomics should I was to switch, but given the limitations of 2/3 of the "holy trinity of Nikkor zooms", and their salty price, I would be super disappointed. It is weird that their best lens in the Trinity is the niche 14-24.
Nikon should pick up their game with their most popular "pro" zooms as they did with their bodies. Unless ofc the momentum for selling those is sufficient - much like it is for Canon having slightly inferior sensors - and they don't care as much.
Edited by pcfoo - 8/1/16 at 12:15pm
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post #29279 of 29551

The lack of IS on wide angles or even short teles doesn't really bother me to be honest. Hand-holding a 70mm at 1/25 isn't the end of the world unless you're running and gunning.

 

So from that perspective, the 24-70 isn't too bad. But I simply cannot justify what Canon asks for it.

   
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SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
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SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
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post #29280 of 29551
Gotta pay for that quality.
Rig
(15 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820K MSI X99A SLI PLUS EVGA GTX 1070 FTW 4x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 Pro Samsung 850 Evo Noctua NH-D15 Windows 10 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2515H Happy Hacking Keyboard 2  EVGA Supernova 750 G2 Corsair 600Q 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G403 Steelseries QcK Mass M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 @ 3.7 HT Gigabyte X58A-UD3R VisionTek 4870x2 3x4GB's G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500GB AAKS, 2x 640GB AAKS, 2x 1TB Samsung SH-S203B Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung 245BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Happy Hacking Keyboard 2 Silverstone OP850 Antec 1200 [Three Nanoxia FX12] [Two San Ace 1011] Logitech G500 
Mouse Pad
Razer eXactMat 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7 3615QM GT 650M 16GB DDR3 256GB SSD 
OS
OS X Mountain Lion 
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Rig
(15 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820K MSI X99A SLI PLUS EVGA GTX 1070 FTW 4x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 Pro Samsung 850 Evo Noctua NH-D15 Windows 10 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2515H Happy Hacking Keyboard 2  EVGA Supernova 750 G2 Corsair 600Q 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G403 Steelseries QcK Mass M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 @ 3.7 HT Gigabyte X58A-UD3R VisionTek 4870x2 3x4GB's G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500GB AAKS, 2x 640GB AAKS, 2x 1TB Samsung SH-S203B Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung 245BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Happy Hacking Keyboard 2 Silverstone OP850 Antec 1200 [Three Nanoxia FX12] [Two San Ace 1011] Logitech G500 
Mouse Pad
Razer eXactMat 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7 3615QM GT 650M 16GB DDR3 256GB SSD 
OS
OS X Mountain Lion 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Consumer Electronics › Photography › [Official] OCN Camera Thread