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post #451 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneTomorrow View Post
The 450D is the XSi. If you have the money, do pick it up. However it's really not drastically different from the 400D (XTi). The big differences are CCD resolution (10 vs 12 MP), spot metering (the XTi only has partial metering) and the image processor (DIGIC II vs. DIGIC III).

I did a lot of research on the XSi, because I considered upgrading my XTi, but almost every review I read said that it wasn't worth it if you already had and XTi. The 100% crops at various ISOs, even 1600, look nearly identical. The XSI barely edges out the XTi at 1600 ISO.

If you have the budget to get the Pentax K20D, also consider the Canon EOS 40D. That's the camera I wish I could have gotten, but it was out of my price range. I haven't found any in depth reviews on the Pentax yet, so I would definitely wait for one from dpreview.com or dcresource.com before buying. I know that previous Pentax DSLRs had rather a few criticisms.
I'll have a look at the 40D then. Thanks for your advice. I'm still trying to keep an open mind, although I'm slowly falling for the K20D .

Here's some in-depth K20D reviews from a few fairly trustworthy sites: digitalcamerareview.com, trustedreviews.com, popphoto.com, photoreview.com.au, neocamera.com. I could go on! Seriously, I'm really excited about this camera. Every review I read gives it high marks and there are few, if any cons, most of which are fairly inconsequential.

The main pro I see of this camera (instead of a Canon or Nikon) is the in-body IS, which means I can save cash on lenses. It's so packed full of features and is 14.6 Mega-pixels as well, with good low noise at the higher ISOs. If somebody had stamped Canon or Nikon on it, it'd be selling more than it is!

Seriously, I am yet to find a good reason not to get this camera. I'd really like a good argument against getting it, as the more I read about it, the better it seems. So far, all I've really heard is: "Its not a Canon or Nikon", which, as I'm not much of a one for brands, doesn't really convince me much.

It seems able to match any equivalently priced Canon or Nikon, in terms of features, ISO capability and noise, image quality and versatility and in some areas it actually exceeds the competition. Plus, it doesn't require expensive lenses with IS, as the IS is built in and it's 14.6 mega-pixels, which is around 20% to 40% more than similarly spec'ed cameras in it's price range. I can only imagine that Pentax are after some more of Canon and Nikon's market share by putting together such a camera.

Also, the K20D's predecessor, the K10D also got good reviews and, naturally, the K20D is better than that.

Please guys, give me a good reason not to get this camera! I really need one as so far, I can't find anything other the name on the badge as a negative to getting the K20D. In terms of what it does and what's "under the hood" I can't really find any serious faults with it and neither can any review I've read!

Thanks for all your help!

Highly-Annoyed
Edited by Highly-Annoyed - 5/18/08 at 1:31pm
    
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post #452 of 29551

So: I have wanted to get a DSLR for a while now... I just sold my old Sony, so I have some additional cash for a new camera. A major reason for wanting a DSLR is low light.. Anyway:

I need start on the inexpensive side- But I want to stick with either Canon or Nikon. Not sure which way to go... Ill need a couple good lenses- A normal lens, then a wide and zoom, and a macro? I am totally lost.... I have noticed most kit lenses seem to have really high apertures.. Which I'd like to avoid.

Can anyone recommend me a good system? I am used to Nikon, but Canon works too..
I can always upgrade the body eventually also. The lenses are more important..

------------------------------------------
What I am looking at at the moment:

Nikon D40 - $480 with the kit lens
-Kit lens 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens


Or maybe add a 55-200 on top of that- Only $120 more (in kit form) But aperture is only f/4-5.6G.......... Useful?
That would be $600 total..

~~~
Then I was looking for a 35mm lens for indoor shots.. Couldn't find one under $400... Is a 50mm useful for that? (It goes to 1.8..)

Then I found a nice looking 28mm- Goes to 2.8 only, but it IS much wider $240- $130 more than the 50mm... Which one? It might not be much nicer to use than the first kit lens I listed.....

Macro? *No idea*


So yea: I am LOST here.. I wish I could use all our old Minolta lenses... ah well. Thanks for any help!
Could I save money going with a manual focus lens?
Edited by christian_piper - 5/18/08 at 12:22pm
post #453 of 29551
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
I'll have a look at the 40D then. Thanks for your advice. I'm still trying to keep an open mind, although I'm slowly falling for the K20D .

Here's some in-depth K20D reviews from a few fairly trustworthy sites: digitalcamerareview.com, trustedreviews.com, popphoto.com, photoreview.com.au, neocamera.com. I could go on! Seriously, I'm really excited about this camera. Every review I read gives it high marks and there are few, if any cons, most of which are fairly inconsequential.

The main pro I see of this camera (instead of a Canon or Nikon) is the in-body IS, which means I can save cash on lenses. It's so packed full of features and is 14.6 Mega-pixels as well, with good low noise at the higher ISOs. If somebody had stamped Canon or Nikon on it, it'd be selling more than it is!

Seriously, I am yet to find a good reason not to get this camera. I'd really like a good argument against getting it, as the more I read about it, the better it seems. So far, all I've really heard is: "Its not a Canon or Nikon", which, as I'm not much of a one for brands, doesn't really convince me much.

It seems able to match any equivalently priced Canon or Nikon, in terms of features, ISO capability and noise, image quality and versatility and in some areas it actually exceeds the competition. Plus, it doesn't require expensive lenses with IS, as the IS is built in and it's 14.6 mega-pixels, which is around 20% to 40% more than similarly spec'ed cameras in it's price range. I can only imagine that Pentax are after some more of Canon and Nikon's market share by putting together such a camera.

Also, the K20D's predecessor, the K10D also got good reviews and, naturally, the K20D is better than that.

Please guys, give me a good reason not to get this camera! I really need one as so far, I can't find anything other the name on the badge as a negative to getting the K20D. In terms of what it does and what's "under the hood" I can't really find any serious faults with it and neither can any review I've read!

Thanks for all your help!

Highly-Annoyed
The Pentax K20D seems to be an excellent DSLR. Still though, the Canon 40D has a faster burst mode and performs better noise wise at 1600 and 3200 ISO. Plus Canon makes the best lenses in my opinion, it's L class lenses are unbelievable. Plus the 40D is about $200 cheaper.

However the K20D is no slouch so if you went for it you wouldn't be disappointed. It does have the in body stabilization, but I did read a review where it claimed that Canon's in-lens stabilization is more effective, but I'm not sure if there's any truth to that. Considering that Olympus, Pentax, Samsung, etc. are making in body stabilization and Canon and Nikon still aren't, there must be some reason why they put it in the lens. I have my doubts that they do it simple for profiteering; my sense is that there is some advantage to having optical stabilization in the lens.

One other thing I would look into is how many and what kind of lense Pentax offers. And read reviews on their lenses! Lens reviews are as picky or more in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_piper View Post
So: I have wanted to get a DSLR for a while now... I just sold my old Sony, so I have some additional cash for a new camera. A major reason for wanting a DSLR is low light.. Anyway:

I need start on the inexpensive side- But I want to stick with either Canon or Nikon. Not sure which way to go... Ill need a couple good lenses- A normal lens, then a wide and zoom, and a macro? I am totally lost.... I have noticed most kit lenses seem to have really high apertures.. Which I'd like to avoid.

Can anyone recommend me a good system? I am used to Nikon, but Canon works too..
I can always upgrade the body eventually also. The lenses are more important..

------------------------------------------
What I am looking at at the moment:

Nikon D40 - $480 with the kit lens
-Kit lens 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens
Amazon.com: Nikon D40 6.1MP Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens: Electronics

Or maybe add a 55-200 on top of that- Only $120 more (in kit form) But aperture is only f/4-5.6G.......... Useful?
Amazon.com: Nikon D40 6.1 Megapixel Digital SLR Camera Two Lens Kit, with 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX & 55mm - 200mm f/4-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX VR (Vibration Reduction) - USA Warranty: Electronics
That would be $600 total..

~~~
Then I was looking for a 35mm lens for indoor shots.. Couldn't find one under $400... Is a 50mm useful for that? (It goes to 1.8..)
Amazon.com: Nikon 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras: Camera & Photo

Then I found a nice looking 28mm- Goes to 2.8 only, but it IS much wider $240- $130 more than the 50mm... Which one? It might not be much nicer to use than the first kit lens I listed.....
Amazon.com: Nikon 28mm f/2.8D AF Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras: Camera & Photo

Macro? *No idea*


So yea: I am LOST here.. I wish I could use all our old Minolta lenses... ah well. Thanks for any help!
Could I save money going with a manual focus lens?
Piper, what is your total budget for body and lenses?

The Nikon D40 does not have an auto focus motor in the body, requiring the use of Nikon AF lenses, that is it's biggest criticism. I believe that it also only has a 5 point auto focus instead of the usual 9 and up. The thing about the Nikon DSLRs is that in their entry level category they seems to have a gap in between the D40 and D80 pricewise. I think that Canon fills that void well with the XTi and XSi.

And about lenses; zoom lenses typically don't have very wide apertures. The 3-4 f-stop range is about as good as they get. For indoor/lowlight, you definitely want to get a good prime lens. They're fix focal length, typically 50mm (the "nifty fifty"). My Canon 50mm EFS lens opens up to a whopping f/1.4 and can practically see in the dark! 85mm is another common prime size.

Definitely don't skimp on lenses. If you can only afford to start with a zoom, then so be it. Save up for better lenses. One way you can save a bit starting off and cover your bases is to get a body ONLY because the kit lenses aren't so great, then get a nice zoom lens. If you can afford, it go for Nikon's VR or Canon's IS. Also try to get lenses with USM (ultra sonic motor, super fast focusing).

For indoor shooting, you can get a prime as I suggested, or you could just get a macro lens. They don't open as wide as primes, but they aren't bad (my 60mm macro lens is f/2.8) and they are good as portrait and general use lenses.
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post #454 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneTomorrow View Post
Piper, what is your total budget for body and lenses?

The Nikon D40 does not have an auto focus motor in the body, requiring the use of Nikon AF lenses, that is it's biggest criticism. I believe that it also only has a 5 point auto focus instead of the usual 9 and up. The thing about the Nikon DSLRs is that in their entry level category they seems to have a gap in between the D40 and D80 pricewise. I think that Canon fills that void well with the XTi and XSi.

And about lenses; zoom lenses typically don't have very wide apertures. The 3-4 f-stop range is about as good as they get. For indoor/lowlight, you definitely want to get a good prime lens. They're fix focal length, typically 50mm (the "nifty fifty"). My Canon 50mm EFS lens opens up to a whopping f/1.4 and can practically see in the dark! 85mm is another common prime size.

Definitely don't skimp on lenses. If you can only afford to start with a zoom, then so be it. Save up for better lenses. One way you can save a bit starting off and cover your bases is to get a body ONLY because the kit lenses aren't so great, then get a nice zoom lens. If you can afford, it go for Nikon's VR or Canon's IS. Also try to get lenses with USM (ultra sonic motor, super fast focusing).

For indoor shooting, you can get a prime as I suggested, or you could just get a macro lens. They don't open as wide as primes, but they aren't bad (my 60mm macro lens is f/2.8) and they are good as portrait and general use lenses.
Total Budget: $700, $900 for now?

The thing is, how flimsy are the newer canons? The older ones I have used seemed quite.. cheap.. when compared to my fathers D80. Am I expecting too much? I need to get to the camera store soon...

And wow... Canon lenses ARE cheaper... And I never thought about using a macro lens as a normal lens.... Didn't exactly know that was possible actually.. And I do enjoy macro photography. What would you recommend for a fairly inexpensive canon zoom? I'd also want to get a prime at the same time... (Or of course a macro)

So: Canon XTI, or XSi (Looks them up now) and 2/3 lenses.... Hrm.

And the canons are CF! Cmon now! How well do SD > CF adapters work? At least they take the same batteries as my G9...

Thanks!!


EDIT: I like the look of the XSi.. Uses SD cards, is nicer, and has a better battery.... Just a BIT expensive...
Kit lens has IS... 18-55mm 3.5-5.6... I wonder how good it is tho. But at $50 more than just the body on Amazon....
Edited by christian_piper - 5/18/08 at 4:43pm
post #455 of 29551
Really its up to you.

Go to the store and take your own memory card(s) and just try out all the cameras and lenses. When you get home you can look and see what settings/camera/lens you used.

Try a ton of different settings, and see what would best fit you.

Also try their flashes.

Remember, there really aren't any BAD SLRs out there unless your looking at something made from pre-2002 or something.
post #456 of 29551
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_piper View Post
Total Budget: $700, $900 for now?

The thing is, how flimsy are the newer canons? The older ones I have used seemed quite.. cheap.. when compared to my fathers D80. Am I expecting too much? I need to get to the camera store soon...

And wow... Canon lenses ARE cheaper... And I never thought about using a macro lens as a normal lens.... Didn't exactly know that was possible actually.. And I do enjoy macro photography. What would you recommend for a fairly inexpensive canon zoom? I'd also want to get a prime at the same time... (Or of course a macro)

So: Canon XTI, or XSi (Looks them up now) and 2/3 lenses.... Hrm.

And the canons are CF! Cmon now! How well do SD > CF adapters work? At least they take the same batteries as my G9...

Thanks!!


EDIT: I like the look of the XSi.. Uses SD cards, is nicer, and has a better battery.... Just a BIT expensive...
Amazon.com: Canon Digital Rebel XSi 12MP Digital SLR Camera with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens (Black): Electronics
Kit lens has IS... 18-55mm 3.5-5.6... I wonder how good it is tho. But at $50 more than just the body on Amazon....
I don't find my XTi flimsy. They have them at Best Buy, go and try it for yourself.

A good Canon zoom would be the Canon EF 28mm-135mm IS USM. It's their most popular zoom. I have one and use it a lot.

And for a prime lens, you're in luck. They're rather cheap if you don't mind not having USM: Canon EF 50mm f/1.8, however without USM the auto focus may be a bit slow and "hunt" more. I have the USM version which has a slightly larger aperture - and price tag: Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

Yes, the XSi has a few improvements, but it's pricey because it just came out. Even if you got the XTi and CF cards it would be cheaper than an XSi by itself. CF cards aren't expensive. You can get an 8GB 133X Transcend CF card for $40. but if you can spring for it, get the XSi. I don't know how well the SD to CF converters work.

I wouldn't bother with the kit lens, trust me. It's not all that great. Save the $50 and put it towards a zoom lens.
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post #457 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneTomorrow View Post
I don't find my XTi flimsy. They have them at Best Buy, go and try it for yourself.

A good Canon zoom would be the Canon EF 28mm-135mm IS USM. It's their most popular zoom. I have one and use it a lot.

And for a prime lens, you're in luck. They're rather cheap if you don't mind not having USM: Canon EF 50mm f/1.8, however without USM the auto focus may be a bit slow and "hunt" more. I have the USM version which has a slightly larger aperture - and price tag: Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

Yes, the XSi has a few improvements, but it's pricey because it just came out. Even if you got the XTi and CF cards it would be cheaper than an XSi by itself. CF cards aren't expensive. You can get an 8GB 133X Transcend CF card for $40. but if you can spring for it, get the XSi. I don't know how well the SD to CF converters work.

I wouldn't bother with the kit lens, trust me. It's not all that great. Save the $50 and put it towards a zoom lens.
XTI for me... Thanks for the lens links!! I didn't see that zoom before... I like it. Thanks!

And Ill go without USM on a prime... My first camera was a manual Minolta and I wasn't too bad with it.. If it focuses too slowly I can just do it manually..

What is the difference between a prime 50mm and a macro 50mm exactly? (Being the same focal length just confuses me...)

And I found a $20 SD to CF adapter... its worth a try.

Thanks! Rep+


EDIT: Spect aint the whole story- going with Nikon./
Edited by christian_piper - 5/19/08 at 7:12pm
post #458 of 29551
Macro/Micro = It focuses closer so you can get very close to your subject, like 2 inches.

With a non macro, you can only get about 10" - 1 foot close.
post #459 of 29551
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoyd1 View Post
Macro/Micro = It focuses closer so you can get very close to your subject, like 2 inches.

With a non macro, you can only get about 10" - 1 foot close.
Ah yes. That WOULD make sense.... Thank you (Rep again!)

I think I knew that...... *Needs sleep* Thanks everyone! I'm going to be going to the camera store VERY soon and looking at all these things..
post #460 of 29551
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoyd1 View Post
If you shot the last two in RAW try an HDR or 2.
Thanks for the tip, I sat down and learned how to do HDR with GIMP using only RAW images. Rep+ for the tip.

Everyone's probably tired of the waterfall shots from me already, but here are some more anyway. These are all HDR shots, by the way, to the best of my ability.




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