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[engadget] Windows piracy built this country - Page 7

post #61 of 106
As a software developer I see both sides of this on a daily basis. I go to work and program proprietary software for hours and get payed to do it. I then come home and often spend some free time working on my own personal open source projects which I will distribute freely and would love to see people modify and redistribute.

However if I were a business owner and I had to pay my developers, pay for marketing, manufacturing and distribution I would absolutely not distribute my products for free and I would not want people to pirate them, otherwise I would never recoup the money I spent developing the software.

Both proprietary and open source software have their place. Very few open source projects are polished enough, stable enough and well known enough to be widely used in business or home use, this is because (like it or not) greed is the best way to bring people together and keep them working on a project for the long term. This is where corporations come in, they have the cash to pay out for developers and etc while some great programmers in a basement have to have day jobs and work for free until their product gets big enough to pay their living costs. Let open source innovate and corporations execute the ideas, let open source keep the corporations moving, and let that occasional open source gem come through and change the world, but don't kill the corporations that bring software to the masses, provide tech support and turn a profit doing it.
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post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by HrnyGoat View Post
Poor analogy. Intellectual property is holding us back as a society. If we got rid of it, sure, the greedy douchebags would cry about it; but it would be so much better for society as a whole. Believe me, open source is going to dramatically change our economic system in the coming years. IP is becoming a severely outdated concept, and some groups like the RIAA are clinging desperately to a sinking ship. These groups are going to have to adapt or die off.
IP won't die. If i had a great idea that I would make millions from, I would sell this idea to the world. But, if every douche in the nation would steal it as soon as it comes out, thereby making it so that I don't turn a profit. Why would I ever make the item in the first place???
All I hear is people blasting IP. The fact is, that if the creators won't make a profit from their idea, the world will never see it. Intellectual Property furthers innovation!

Yes, IP will sometimes hold back innovation, TO A DEGREE. Like the AC, DC story from before. But, DC would not have come out if the inventor did not believe he could turn a profit. Thank you IP for giving us electricity!

Get it into your head. FREE DOESN'T WORK!!!
Yes, Firefox exists because they can use their free product to sell you something else. Yes, Google exists because they can advertise to you. The world is not free, everything comes with a price.



Political portion:
I will not respond to your post regarding anything following this line due to the fact that I probably shouldn't be mentioning it on this website anyway.

You have to remember, people are greedy. If there is no incentive to do something, it won't get done. People will work harder if they think they will get more out of it.
Example: I can work at McDonnald's for $7.15/hour. Or, I could do some harder work at Intel for $15+/hour. I would personally chose Intel.
Now, if McDonnald's and Intel both paid $7.15/hour, why would I want to work for Intel? I would have to be crazy.
It is this reason that IP is needed, people are greedy!

You have to play into human nature for something to work. A capitalist society works because people are greedy. A communist society FAILS because people are greedy.
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post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruestle2 View Post
But, if every douche in the nation would steal it as soon as it comes out, thereby making it so that I don't turn a profit. Why would I ever make the item in the first place???
Exactly. This is what Hrnygoat is not grasping. People need MOTIVATION to create things.

This is similar to capitalism(closed source) and communism(open source). On paper, communism seems great. Everyone shares with each other, everyone works hard even though there is no incentive and everything is great. In reality though, this is not the case, and thus communism has not been successful.

People need to be rewarded financially for all the time they put into software. Why would i spend 5 years coding a project if some bigger entity could just come along and reap all the benefits.

Am i not entitled to some reward for all the time i spent creating software?
post #64 of 106
SOftware company should make money in one way and ione way alone. Corporate contracting. Take this coming from an employee of a small but prosperous software firm. If people pirated the company I work for's product, the company I am employed by would not lose a dime.

If I don't use your product to sell a product, and I do not profit from its use in any way, you shouldnt be able to charge me for most things. ie, photoshop. Because if I pirate photoshop to mess around with it and mock up some pictures,. rest assured if I did not pirate it, I NEVER would have bought it. I would have gone without the luxury of mocking up a picture.

Corporate contracting is what Adobe has in mind when they make photoshop. they know no college kids are going to buy it for fun.

I wish I could divulge who my employer is, but I am afraid that I'd be fired for doing so, as I have no clue what their stance on piracy is.
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post #65 of 106
First i will answer to the post on page 3 about how can a not for porfit organization make a profit. News flash. All organizations MAKE a profit. Be it NON-PROFIT or FOR-PROFIT.

The difference is that a not for profit organization DOES NOT CHASE PROFITABILITY. It sill has to make a profit to pay its staff. As an example my Business Analysis professor gives us, can you imagine a hospital saying we have to close the the cardiac department because we don't have funds to support it? o.O

Quote:
Originally Posted by LudaMan View Post
Exactly. This is what Hrnygoat is not grasping. People need MOTIVATION to create things.

This is similar to capitalism(closed source) and communism(open source). On paper, communism seems great. Everyone shares with each other, everyone works hard even though there is no incentive and everything is great. In reality though, this is not the case, and thus communism has not been successful.
The only thing i have to say to this (since politics is forbbiden on the forum) is that some people from the US should start reading some history books NOT MADE BY US authors and goverment just so they have a better view on politics and world history especially since US isn't that old of a nation (don't take this as a flame but as an educational suggestion )
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post #66 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruestle2 View Post
IP won't die. If i had a great idea that I would make millions from, I would sell this idea to the world. But, if every douche in the nation would steal it as soon as it comes out, thereby making it so that I don't turn a profit. Why would I ever make the item in the first place???
All I hear is people blasting IP. The fact is, that if the creators won't make a profit from their idea, the world will never see it. Intellectual Property furthers innovation!

Yes, IP will sometimes hold back innovation, TO A DEGREE. Like the AC, DC story from before. But, DC would not have come out if the inventor did not believe he could turn a profit. Thank you IP for giving us electricity!

Get it into your head. FREE DOESN'T WORK!!!
Yes, Firefox exists because they can use their free product to sell you something else. Yes, Google exists because they can advertise to you. The world is not free, everything comes with a price.
It really does bug me when people get so emotional in debates. Remember, you think with your brain, not with your emotions.

You have to note, there are two types of innovators. Those who innovate for profit, and those who innovate to benefit mankind. People like Einstein didn't share their knowledge in hopes of becoming rich. No, they shared it to progress our knowledge as a society.

And contrary to what you believe, Edison did not invent DC generation or distribution. He only improved on what was already there, and then took advantage of IP to monopolize the distribution system. It may also be interesting to note that Edison did not invent the light bulb, but only improved upon a pre-existing design. If IP laws hadn't existed and Edison chose not to pursue these inventions, someone else would have. Necessity is the mother of invention, not money - and it has held true throughout history.

And despite what you say, free does work. Not for everything, but for a number of things it does - and not everything comes or should come with a price. Capitalism is a great system that works well, but it not the only system that works and works well. And really, not saying we need to abolish IP entirely, but the current system is so prone to corruption and abuse that it needs to be revised. That same greed that makes capitalism so successful can turn it into a plutocracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LudaMan View Post
Exactly. This is what Hrnygoat is not grasping. People need MOTIVATION to create things.

This is similar to capitalism(closed source) and communism(open source). On paper, communism seems great. Everyone shares with each other, everyone works hard even though there is no incentive and everything is great. In reality though, this is not the case, and thus communism has not been successful.

People need to be rewarded financially for all the time they put into software. Why would i spend 5 years coding a project if some bigger entity could just come along and reap all the benefits.

Am i not entitled to some reward for my time?
I think it is you who are not grasping. Likening open source to communism is not a good comparison. If it were a communist system, you would not be free to modify and redistribute source code as you saw fit. Some central body would dictate what you could and couldn't do with the code, and apply consequences to violations of its set of standards. These standards would apply to everyone. No, open source is much more like democracy, were everyone has there say and are free to modify and redistribute the source code. But enough of that.

People do a lot of innovation on their spare time as a hobby and often will do it not expecting anything in return. I'd rather have someone invent something because they want to, not just because they want to get paid. Now if you rely on this as your income, then by all means you should reap the benefits of it. But innovation should never be viewed as some get-rich-quick scheme, and often companies will invent something, do nothing with it, and then sue someone else when they actually use the idea. That's probably one of the biggest problems with IP today.

And no, you are not entitled for any of your time posting on this forum, and neither am I. Now, that is just an example, but just because I disagree with something does not automatically imply that everything I say is the polar opposite.
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post #67 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by HrnyGoat View Post
And no, you are not entitled for any of your time posting on this forum, and neither am I.
lol, i was saying i should be compensated for the 5 years i spent creating my fictitious software that someone else could make money off of if IP wasn't there to protect me.
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
This whole "everyone owns every invention" is an ideal of Communism. So basically, you are a communist. We all know how well that worked out in Russia, China, and North Korea. Evidently you like the idea of standing in line for bread.
Do you know anything?

That wasn't true communism, I'm not a communist, and I like Democracy more than communism, but China, North Korea and Russia just used communism's name for what was pretty much a dictatorship, most people realize this.


Anyone against open-source (except the ones who see problems and WANT to fix it without compromising the open-ness) is greedy and one of those people who sit there "GIMMIE YOUR MONIES!"
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post #69 of 106
.....why did you bump this thread to argue about communism????
I swear today is "bring back the dead thread" day.
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post #70 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by binormalkilla View Post
.....why did you bump this thread to argue about communism????
I swear today is "bring back the dead thread" day.
why i think it is binormalkilla
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