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[TcMag] GeForce 9600 GSO release reported for May 13 - Page 5

post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaseinx View Post
Point is if they're close at stock for averages of several games, and it's known that the 9800GTX overclocks like a beast and that the Ultra, yea it overclocks, but nothing spectacular. People are getting 20% oc's for stable usage. I don't think the Ultra can keep up with that.
You don't think? How about know?

I think the point here is; you don't.
    
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post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
You don't think? How about know?
eh man, I'm not arguing with you. I don't think you have Ultras or a 9800GTX so what reference are you coming from? Fact is they're close at stock and the 9800GTX gets higher oc percentages, so it's an educated guess.

A philosophy professor once came in the room, touch his chair and said to write an essay proving the chair is real and no one could, so if your looking for certainty even if some guy benches them overclocked and the Ultra wins the same results may not be duplicated by different cards, so until a handful of reviews on oc'd 9800GTX's vs Ultras are done can't really say. But if you take the facts at hand. That at stock the performance is barely a couple of fps and the 9800GTX oc's like a champ, it's not a stretch to say the 9800GTX oc'd will beat an ultra oc'd.
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post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaseinx View Post
eh man, I'm not arguing with you. I don't think you have Ultras or a 9800GTX so what reference are you coming from? Fact is they're close at stock and the 9800GTX gets higher oc percentages, so it's an educated guess.

A philosophy professor once came in the room, touch his chair and said to write an essay proving the chair is real and no one could, so if your looking for certainty even if some guy benches them overclocked and the Ultra wins the same results may not be duplicated by different cards, so until a handful of reviews on oc'd 9800GTX's vs Ultras are done can't really say. But if you take the facts at hand. That at stock the performance is barely a couple of fps and the 9800GTX oc's like a champ, it's not a stretch to say the 9800GTX oc'd will beat an ultra.
This isn't about philosophy. This is about data. While admitting a stock 8800Ultra beats out a 9800GTX (in some situations), you basically made a claim the 8800Ultra cannot overclock enough to beat an overclocked 9800GTX. The person who makes the claim has to back it up. My point is, you haven't. I didn't necessarily say the 8800Ultra, while overclocked, will beat a 9800GTX while overclocked. I just said the 8800Ultra can be overclocked as well - so we don't necessarily know for sure.

I just want to see a point of reference proving what you claim. You're going off of subjective information to make specific claims.
    
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post #44 of 53
I would like to see how an OC'ed Ultra fairs against a 9800GTX. Because I know that at least the G80 cores were more limited by memory bandwidth than by core clocks.
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post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
This isn't about philosophy. This is about data. While admitting a stock 8800Ultra beats out a 9800GTX (in some situations), you basically made a claim the 8800Ultra cannot overclock enough to beat an overclocked 9800GTX. The person who makes the claim has to back it up. My point is, you haven't. I didn't necessarily say the 8800Ultra, while overclocked, will beat a 9800GTX while overclocked. I just said the 8800Ultra can be overclocked as well.

I just want to see a point of reference proving what you claim. You're going off of subjective information to make specific claims.
Dude, it beat it by 2fps at stock. Come on.

I've stated my point, and I've enumerated reasons. I never said I know. I said it was an educated guess, but one based on the facts at hand. You're ascribing assertions to me that are based on a skewed perception of the facts. 2fps ain't much at stock. And the 9800GTX does overclock more by percentage than the Ultra. Make the inference, man.

You're setting the threshold of certainty beyond the already admitted information I've enumerated. What's the point in questioning me when I've admitted to making a guess? And my philosophy comment was intended to make you aware of that.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong nor does it mean I'm right. It's an opinion based on the facts at hand.

Btw, logically, you cannot derive anything from the propostion "I think" except "I think" (Bertrand Russell).
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post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaseinx View Post
Dude, it beat it by 2fps at stock. Come on.

I've stated my point, and I've enumerated reasons. I never said I know. I said it was an educated guess, but one based on the facts at hand. You're ascribing assertions to me that are based on a skewed perception of the facts. 2fps ain't much at stock. And the 9800GTX does overclock more by percentage than the Ultra. Make the inference, man.

You're setting the threshold of certainty beyond the already admitted information I've enumerated. What's the point in questioning me when I've admitted to making a guess? And my philosophy comment was intended to make you aware of that.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong nor does it mean I'm right. It's an opinion based on the facts at hand.

Btw, logically, you cannot derive anything from the propostion "I think" except "I think" (Bertrand Russell).
You're basing it off of one statement you've made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaseinx View Post
The 9800GTX has a lot more headroom than the 8800Ultra, so I beg to differ. Take a look at those averages.
I didn't see "I think" in that statement.

I think You're trying to dance around what you've said.
    
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post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
You're basing it off of one statement you've made.



I didn't see "I think" in that statement.

I think You're trying to dance around what you've said.
Now you're arguing semantics, which in most cases means the interlocutor is arguing for the sake of arguing. If you'll respond to what I've said instead of pointing out words I've used I'll continue discussing. Otherwise, I advise you not to make it a habit of arguing the words and perceived manner by which someone states their opinion, but instead actually try to present alternatives or your own opinion.

De Omnibus Dubitandum - Decartes....
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post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaseinx View Post
Now you're arguing semantics, which in most cases means the interlocutor is arguing for the sake of arguing. If you'll respond to what I've said instead of pointing out words I've used I'll continue discussing. Otherwise, I advise you not to make it a habit of arguing the words and perceived manner by which someone states their opinion, but instead actually try to present alternatives or your own opinion.
....... speaking of semantics.

I'll I'm saying is, you made a claim the 9800GTX has more overclocking headroom than the 8800Ultra, implying the 9800 will beat the 8800 when both are overclocked. Come on, it's that simple.

I'm saying we don't necessarily know this to be true. They can both be overclocked. Whether or not which one will perform better in that case, we don't know for sure at this point. We'd have to see a specific comparison to know.

Does that clear it up for you?
    
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post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
....... speaking of semantics.

I'll I'm saying is, you made a claim the 9800GTX has more overclocking headroom than the 8800Ultra, implying the 9800 will beat the 8800 when both are overclocked. Come on, it's that simple.

I'm saying we don't necessarily know this to be true. They can both be overclocked. Whether or not which one will perform better in that case, we don't know for sure at this point. We'd have to see a specific comparison to know.

Does that clear it up for you?
Actually what you've said now. Is what I said... Read my above posts ^^^

Goodnight
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post #50 of 53
well... with that put to rest, I actually don't think the 8800 GS is a terrible card, I picked one up for a comp I gave to my brother and it works like a champ.

It also outrenders the hell out of a cpu, but then again, so does a 6x =)
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