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[TR] 45nm Phenoms to hit 3.2GHz and more? - Page 4

post #31 of 54
Time for me to take up my whippin' stick and get in line to flog the horse again...

You can't just skip a processing generation (65nm,45nm, 32nm). You go down gradually because of the tremendous cost associated with retooling fabs...

AMD could not have just stuck two X2's under one IHS. The architecture isn't suited to that, unlike the C2D which is a less complicated chip (yes, the C2D is less complex than the X2).

Intel's (true) quads will likely not offer another 30-40% performance increase across the board. The proposed figures are likely due to benefits of more instruction sets (see the step from Conroe to Wolfsdale). Still, a 15% performance benefit could be expected.

AMD is not significantly slower clock/clock than Intel currently. Yes, Intel is faster, but the gap has closed a bit since the final fix of the Phenom.

AMD will likely never catch Intel if they continue to have superior management, and the money needed for R&D (AMD has neither).

I love my Phenom and my Q6600 G0. I use both systems everyday.
    
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post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonindeBeatrice View Post
Time for me to take up my whippin' stick and get in line to flog the horse again...

You can't just skip a processing generation (65nm,45nm, 32nm). You go down gradually because of the tremendous cost associated with retooling fabs...

AMD could not have just stuck two X2's under one IHS. The architecture isn't suited to that, unlike the C2D which is a less complicated chip (yes, the C2D is less complex than the X2).

Intel's (true) quads will likely not offer another 30-40% performance increase across the board. The proposed figures are likely due to benefits of more instruction sets (see the step from Conroe to Wolfsdale). Still, a 15% performance benefit could be expected.

AMD is not significantly slower clock/clock than Intel currently. Yes, Intel is faster, but the gap has closed a bit since the final fix of the Phenom.

AMD will likely never catch Intel if they continue to have superior management, and the money needed for R&D (AMD has neither).

I love my Phenom and my Q6600 G0. I use both systems everyday.
QFT.
post #33 of 54
AMD for entry-level and general-usage PCs = Win
AMD for enthusiast PCs = Fail
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post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by darksideleader View Post
Would have AMD be better off if they taken 2 Athlon 64x2 and bolted em together like the Core 2 quads for their own quick and easy, cheap quads?
That would probably have helped but it wouldn't have solved any problems for AMD because K8 is just not competitive with Core. A MCM K8 would have basically been the 4x4 platform in a single socket and the reviews of the FX-74 were just plain horrible. Even at 3.2GHz, the FX-74s were completely destroyed in practically every benchmark. The power consumption wouldn't have changed too much and they were MUCH higher than any C2Q. Perhaps if they went with the MCM approach with 2 X2s based off of the newer Barcelona archectiture might help, but AMD decided against it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
There is a guy over at Phoronix that was able to get 3.3GHz out of his Phenom, so those speeds are definitely possible.
The speeds are possible, but at what TDP? The thing that is unclear from this article is under what circumstances are the 45nm Phenoms able to hit 3.2GHz. Sure there are Phenoms now that can hit 3.0GHz, but that is under nonconventional cooling solutions and with more vcore. The highest clocked C2Q offered now is already at 3.2GHz at stock TDP, meaning that there is a lot of headroom with overvolting and more exotic means of cooling. If the 45nm Phenoms can hit 3.2GHz at stock vcore and stock cooling, then there is going to be much more competition, but if it hits 3.2GHz OCed, then that's not much to be jumping high-5s over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny1989 View Post
They could be 4GHz Phemons; the fact is AMD is already behind about 10% in performance clock for clock compared to the Core 2s. And they will be another 30-40% behind in performance when Nehalem hits later this year and early next year.

AMD could be as much as 50% behind in clock for clock performance in less than a year.

So if Intel’s projected 30-40% jump in performance comes true a 2.0GHz Nehalem chip could easily out pace any Phenom.

AMD needs to be focusing much much more on a new architecture to compete and not just die shrinks and higher clock speed of what is quickly becoming a failed architecture.
Agreed. The big wild card here is the "IPC improvements" that is supposedly being tossed in with the 45nm upgrade. Those "improvements" need to really boost the IPCs by a LOT for them to stay in the competitive level.

Bulldozer is supposedly going to be the new architecture that is designed from the ground up and is a big departure from the K7-K10 architecture so we'll have to wait (patiently) for another year or two to finally see if it holds up to taking the performance crown once again.
    
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post #35 of 54
honestly, I've stopped waiting and hoping for AMD to catch up. Once they do, I'll be really happy, but until I see some really solid evidence, I'm not going to hold my breath...impressive post by cheetos btw, must have taken a little while
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny1989 View Post
Uh dude "NO", I have yet to see anyone one with the same avatar as me and mine has been the same for a long time.

I got the PIC from the DNA page at wikipedia.

You want something different than you can be the one to change it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:D...ated_small.gif

EDIT: There, Mines cooler now any way.
LOL, I was kidding.
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post #37 of 54
At this point i think K10 may have a good deal of potential, but needs to mature greatly.
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post #38 of 54
i think the naitive quad was a necessary step for AMD and, while it hurt them last year i think that the knowlege taken from it will help them in future quad endeavors

i don't even know how they've survived this long under intel......who has nearly 10x the production capabilities and WAY more R&D
    
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post #39 of 54
hopefully this pulls amd ahead. i would hate to see intel totally monopolize the industry. competition is always good in capotilism. otherwise, tech gets stale and crusty (and overpriced)
   
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post #40 of 54
Bolt 2 Native Quads Together=octo-core=win!
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