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[Anand]AMD Fighting 2 Cores with 3? - Page 2

post #11 of 35
You know the Phenom line sucking they way they do mite be a good thing. I would love for AMD to be bought out by IBM. It would be nice to have an IBM CPU in one of my systems with out having to spend 10,000$ or more on it.

Even if IBM kept the AMD name live, Just having some IBM developed tech in a system would be cool.
    
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post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny1989 View Post
You know the Phenom line sucking they way they do mite be a good thing. I would love for AMD to be bought out by IBM. It would be nice to have an IBM CPU in one of my systems with out having to spend 10,000$ or more on it.

Even if IBM kept the AMD name live, Just having some IBM developed tech in a system would be cool.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13924_1-9880862-64.html

AMD pays for IBM know-how in battle with Intel

Posted by Brooke Crothers

Quote:
AMD is leaning increasingly on IBM as it battles with Intel for next-generation microprocessor manufacturing leadership. And the payout to IBM is significant...

This development follows a series of joint disclosures over the past six years that highlight the crucial expertise that IBM provides to AMD. The two companies began cooperating on advanced chip manufacturing in 2002, when AMD was having trouble with silicon-on-insulator technology, or SOI. AMD got SOI to work with help from IBM and they have been renewing agreements periodically since then. First, in September 2004, to include development of technologies through 2008 for 32nm manufacturing and then again, in November 2005, the agreement was extended through 2011 for the 22nm process. In other areas, AMD is now cooperating with IBM on "high-k/metal gate" transistor technology for next-generation 32nm chips--a technology that Intel is employing in its current 45nm chips.

This kind of know-how is not cheap. AMD's 2007 10K form says the following about the agreement that extends to December 31, 2011: "We anticipate that, under this agreement, we will pay fees to IBM of approximately $400 million in connection with joint development projects between 2008 and 2011."
Calculon Ω
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Calculon Ω
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post #13 of 35
I already knew that IBM has been helping with die shrinking and what not but AMD need a lot of help in the area of what goes on to the die, I.E. help with an architecture that can actually compete. Not just in performance but performance per watt.

Once Nehalem comes out AMD could have 4.5GHz Quad core Phenoms and still not compete with mid range Intel Nehalem chips.

I just think that AMD going under and being bought out buy IBM could bring IBM into the mean stream market. And with IBM being a very large supporter of 64 bit CPUs they could also force 64 bit operating system into the more mean stream market and shift 64 bit software development into a higher gear. Thus moving us away form the old and out dated 32 bit OS and increasing computing power by a fare bit.

Even game consoles have been running 64 bit applications and games sense the N64 but computers have yet to move away from the 32 bit OS.
    
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post #14 of 35
Thats pretty bad on AMDs part. Look at that E7200. Damn I want.
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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianGrimmReaper View Post
Those are only two benchmarks... Pay attention to apps, not terribly coded games like Crysis. The Phenom outperforms the Athlon in single threaded apps by 10-30%(According to Tom's Hardware) If they price the Tri-Core at $200 or less, lots of people will buy it, especially OEMs. The average Joe doesn't know the difference between architectures, he only knows that 3 cores are better than 2(seems common sense when you don't know the 2 cores are much more powerful than the 3).
What kind of average joe knows how to build a computer?
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post #16 of 35
This is another review
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...enom_x3_8750/5

E8400 at stock speeds is much faster than Phenom X3 8750. E8400 at stock speeds was able to compete with Phenom X3 8750 even when it was overclocked to 3.0GHz

E8400 aslo consume less power and runs cooler

So, the only way for those tri-cores to compete with Intel in price/performance is to sell them for cheaper price. If they sell them at same price as E8xxx then intel wins because E8xxx offers better average performance and it consume much less power, and run cooler.
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny1989 View Post
I already knew that IBM has been helping with die shrinking and what not but AMD need a lot of help in the area of what goes on to the die, I.E. help with an architecture that can actually compete. Not just in performance but performance per watt.

Once Nehalem comes out AMD could have 4.5GHz Quad core Phenoms and still not compete with mid range Intel Nehalem chips.

I just think that AMD going under and being bought out buy IBM could bring IBM into the mean stream market. And with IBM being a very large supporter of 64 bit CPUs they could also force 64 bit operating system into the more mean stream market and shift 64 bit software development into a higher gear. Thus moving us away form the old and out dated 32 bit OS and increasing computing power by a fare bit.

Even game consoles have been running 64 bit applications and games sense the N64 but computers have yet to move away from the 32 bit OS.
I think you should rethink your positions here. IBM has been slowly becoming less and less of a hardware company, and more and more a partner/R&D company. They're also not going to sell operating systems any time soon to consumers. AMD and Intel chips are 64bit capable, so, by your logic, we should already have seen the 64bit revolution. In fact, I'm running 64bit Vista, and 64bit ubuntu. How could IBM "force" 64bit OS's into the mainstream? AMD's architecture is fine, it just wasn't designed to be a huge jump from k8. Sure it does outperform K8 sometimes more than 30% per core, but it is an increase. The issue is the manufacturing of the chip, which is very complex...so, IBM's manufacturing expertise is exactly what they need.
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post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisB17 View Post
Thats pretty bad on AMDs part. Look at that E7200. Damn I want.
Honestly though, i've been thinking: " is our way of benchmarking becoming dated?"

I think about that because 2 cores don't double the performance even though they double the processing power. Current programs don't even utilize 2 cores to their max, let alone 4.....but I like it that way because that allows us to multitask without bogging down.

Honestly, i think the new way to do a benchmark shouldn't be on a virgin windows install but on a system with anti virus, a internet browser and winamp running in the background.
    
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post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by noname View Post
What kind of average joe knows how to build a computer?
Any average joe that knows how to navigate on Dell's website
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
I think you should rethink your positions here. IBM has been slowly becoming less and less of a hardware company, and more and more a partner/R&D company. They're also not going to sell operating systems any time soon to consumers. AMD and Intel chips are 64bit capable, so, by your logic, we should already have seen the 64bit revolution. In fact, I'm running 64bit Vista, and 64bit ubuntu. How could IBM "force" 64bit OS's into the mainstream? AMD's architecture is fine, it just wasn't designed to be a huge jump from k8. Sure it does outperform K8 sometimes more than 30% per core, but it is an increase. The issue is the manufacturing of the chip, which is very complex...so, IBM's manufacturing expertise is exactly what they need.
Yup, IBM is all about R&D aka licensing their IP. A more logical (POTENTIAL)buyout hopeful would be one of the big foundries, TSMC and CHRT come to mind...

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-990...l?tag=nefd.top

Quote:
Company executives have steadily refused to explain what "asset-light" (which soon morphed into "asset-smart") actually means, but have hinted that it involves a rethinking of the way AMD develops chips...

Even in boom times, AMD's pockets are not nearly as deep as Intel's, yet it has to spend the money to keep up. To date, it has gotten around some of the need for huge outlays by working on advanced research and development in a facility owned by IBM, using third-party chip foundries like Chartered Semiconductor and TSMC, and making the most of what capacity it does have in Dresden, Germany.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080422PB200.html

Quote:
Morris Chang, chairman of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), sees foundries playing a rising role in the semiconductor industry and projects that foundries will account for about 40% of total semiconductor sales in 2012.

Foundry sales enjoyed a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 17% before 2000, versus the CAGR of 11% for the overall semiconductor industry. For TSMC, the company posted a 43% CAGR for sales during the same period.

The semiconductor industry, however, experienced fundamental change after 2000, with Moore's Law continuing to hold but showing signs of a slowing migration trend, Chang said. Therefore, he believes that innovation is the only way to sustain the growth as seen before 2000.

The entire semiconductor industry is exposed to challenges from rising design and foundry costs, Chang pointed out. For the foundry sector, non CMOS logic sectors, including analog IC, CPU, CMOS image sensor and memory, are the areas that should see challenges and opportunities. Currently, industry players have less than a quarter of their products in these segments outsourced to foundries, he detailed.

Regarding the near-term outlook, Chang projects that the semiconductor industry will see a 5% on-year growth in production value in 2008. Foundries, which currently account for about 28% of total semiconductor sales, should see the proportion grow to 40% in 2012.
Given their growth and the fact that they already manufacture AMD CPUs a foundry is much better fit than IBM.
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