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post #91 of 106
A very long post, but really a wasted effort. Why? Because you are continuing the same process of mere simplistic interpretation of the figures. No offense, but why am I to believe your hypothesis over Coleman's? Or the 17,000+ scientists and experts that oppose what you say? Seriously, why? Other than the fact you say your interpretation is correct.

It's not, necessarily, that I don't believe the data from your graphs/charts etc. are real or accurate. But the problem still remains - I think you fail to distinguish the difference between data and interpretation. You can create a report as long as you'd like with data..... but the real question about man-made global warming is still the interpretation of the data to come to such a conclusion.

You've provided evidence that the globe is warming up. Congratulations. But seriously, that's about it. However, I've provided you with more (and more valid) expert opinions that say that all this man-made global warming hype is an invalid interpretation of the data. It's as simple as that. You'll have to forgive me if it surprises you that I take their opinion over yours.

Quote:
Again; correlation doesn't specifically lead to causation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox View Post
Thank you very much for bringing this up! Not nearly enough people realize this and many are fooled by by misleading statistics exploiting this fact. It can be very hard to pick out correlation from causation, and thats one of the big issues in the global warming debate. One of the best ways in modern science to distinguish between correlation and causation is to develop a model, a mathematical or computer model of the system in question. We can test and play with this model seeing what stimuluses lead to what results.
The problem is, with your data and subsequent assertions, you're merely trying to attribute causation from correlation. Maybe you didn't get this:

Quote:
Another critic of the standard model of global warming is MIT professor of meteorology Richard S. Lindzen. A giant in climate science, Lindzen has published literally hundreds of scientific papers. In an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal in 2001, writing about a National Academy of Sciences report on climate change in which he participated, Lindzen noted: "We are quite confident (1) that global mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than it was a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth (one of many, the most important being water vapor and clouds). But — and I cannot stress this enough — we are not in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future. That is to say, contrary to media impressions, agreement with the three basic statements tells us almost nothing relevant to policy discussions."
and;

Quote:
Moreover, Gray noted that many of his colleagues agree with him. "Nearly all of my colleagues who have been around 40 or 50 years are skeptical as hell about this whole global-warming thing," Gray told Discover. "But no one asks us. If you don't know anything about how the atmosphere functions, you will of course say, 'Look, greenhouse gases are going up, the globe is warming, they must be related.' Well, just because there are two associations, changing with the same sign, doesn't mean that one is causing the other."
Again, as logic demands, correlation does not prove causation. With all your attempts, that's still exactly how you're reaching your conclusions.
Edited by Choggs396 - 5/13/08 at 4:52am
    
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post #92 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
A very long post, but really a wasted effort.
Unfortunately i think the same can be said for your previous post. lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
You've provided evidence that the globe is warming up. Congratulations. But seriously, that's about it. However, I've provided you with more (and more valid) expert opinions that say that all this man-made global warming hype is an invalid interpretation of the data.
I just think its ignorant and unrealistic to believe that our presence has no repercussion on this planet. There are many other variables to consider, but man makes up the majority of the changes because of our huge footprint.
post #93 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
GW is Not a Fact.

Facts:
- This winter has been the coldest winter since '86 in the US.
- The hottest year(s) were the dustbowls of the 1930's.
- The size of the ice shleves in the south pole has been measured since 1979. The south pole now (in 2008) has the most ice it has had since 1979.

Now tell me, why the HAY did the government spend $400 million on "Green" improvements for the White House while us middle-classmen are struggling to find money to put gas in our tanks everyday? And why is no one letting us drill into the HUGE oil field off the coast of south dakota that could virtually eliminate our dependance on foreign oil?

Wow, our world is blinded and messed up.
ROFL. OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH DAKOTA?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
LOLOL PLS SHOW ME WHERE ON THIS MAP THE COAST OF SOUTH DAKOTA IS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post

The problem is, with your data and subsequent assertions, you're merely trying to attribute causation from correlation. Maybe you didn't get this:
ROFL. I guess the correlation of my working hard, doing extra curriculars and getting straight A's didn't cause my acceptance into Harvard... because, as we all know, correlation isn't causation! ... but its damn close. Also, data is NOTHING without interpretation. Think computers!! What are all those 0s and 1s for? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... its a... picture! We have... a CPU and Operating systems to tell us (aka interpret) what all those 0s and 1s (data ... just pure data) are! Wow... its... revolutionary!! Haha <3
post #94 of 106
I would also like to know when South Dakota became a coastal state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElMikeTheMike View Post
It's as tainted with political bais as the crap Gore spits out.


Quote:
1. Most scientists do not believe human activities threaten to disrupt the Earth’s climate. More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition circulated by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying, in part, “there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” (Go to www.oism.org for the complete petition and names of signers.) Surveys of climatologists show similar skepticism.
This makes no mention of the other side of the story.

Also, with regards to the quoted phrase in there, even many of those who do believe that human induced global climate change maybe significant would not predict the change to be anywhere near catastophic. The quoted line could easily be supported by scientists who believe essentially the opposite of what the link you posted advocates.

Quote:
3. Global climate computer models are too crude to predict future climate changes. All predictions of global warming are based on computer models, not historical data. In order to get their models to produce predictions that are close to their designers’ expectations, modelers resort to “flux adjustments” that can be 25 times larger than the effect of doubling carbon dioxide concentrations, the supposed trigger for global warming. Richard A. Kerr, a writer for Science, says “climate modelers have been ‘cheating’ for so long it’s almost become respectable.”
This seems like a pretty good argument for a more powerful and accurate climate model.

Quote:
5. A modest amount of global warming, should it occur, would be beneficial to the natural world and to human civilization. Temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period (roughly 800 to 1200 AD), which allowed the Vikings to settle presently inhospitable Greenland, were higher than even the worst-case scenario reported by the IPCC. The period from about 5000-3000 BC, known as the “climatic optimum,” was even warmer and marked “a time when mankind began to build its first civilizations,” observe James Plummer and Frances B. Smith in a study for Consumer Alert. “There is good reason to believe that a warmer climate would have a similar effect on the health and welfare of our own far more advanced and adaptable civilization today.”
I agree with most of this.

However, the "benifical to the natural world" line is rediculous. Any change is going to benefit something, but harm other things just as much. Nature is just as prevalent in the heart of the harshest of natural ice ages as it is in the hottest of warm periods; it's just different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_08 View Post
GW is not a scam. I just had my hottest days since along time.
2 weeks straight of over 90F.
That means exactly nothing. You are extremely shortsighted if you think otherwise.
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post #95 of 106
Has nobody noticed the polar ice caps melting ? or was that just an illusion on TV ?.

As for people stating that machine used for folding...lol I cannot think of anything worse. Why fold for a cure if the human race is only going to obliterate itself through ingnorance.
post #96 of 106
You guys are all so completely wrong its insane... Any intelligent and faithful pastafarian would know the decrease in pirates is the cause of global warming. As PROVEN by this graph below.

http://foxes.files.wordpress.com/200...irates-400.jpg



(at work and too lazy to imageshack host...)
post #97 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by FearMeansControl View Post
Are there really people around that don't think this is a real issue?

It was a real issue before Al Gore made it a hollywood topic, and it will still be a real issue once everyone forgets he ever mentioned it (they may have already forgotten).

This is why I have mixed issues about apps like F@H, yeah its a good cause, and i like the 'every little bit helps' message, but what's the flip?

just my two cents
Even scientists are unsure whether Global Warming is a naturally heating up Earth, which has happened in the past (and we are due for the earth to heat up, we had a Ice Age 10,000 years ago, so its well due for a heat age, then, in 10,000 years, another Ice age, etc).

This is like the Corey Delaney thing, the Media is making it seem worse than it is.
    
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post #98 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
GW is Not a Fact.

Facts:
- This winter has been the coldest winter since '86 in the US.
- The hottest year(s) were the dustbowls of the 1930's.
- The size of the ice shleves in the south pole has been measured since 1979. The south pole now (in 2008) has the most ice it has had since 1979.

Now tell me, why the HAY did the government spend $400 million on "Green" improvements for the White House while us middle-classmen are struggling to find money to put gas in our tanks everyday? And why is no one letting us drill into the HUGE oil field off the coast of south dakota that could virtually eliminate our dependance on foreign oil?

Wow, our world is blinded and messed up.

South Dakota has a coast?
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post #99 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
GW is Not a Fact.

Facts:
- This winter has been the coldest winter since '86 in the US.
- The hottest year(s) were the dustbowls of the 1930's.
- The size of the ice shleves in the south pole has been measured since 1979. The south pole now (in 2008) has the most ice it has had since 1979.

Now tell me, why the HAY did the government spend $400 million on "Green" improvements for the White House while us middle-classmen are struggling to find money to put gas in our tanks everyday? And why is no one letting us drill into the HUGE oil field off the coast of south dakota that could virtually eliminate our dependance on foreign oil?

Wow, our world is blinded and messed up.
Wow man, just...wow. Were you born stupid or did you just huff too much CFC's as a kid?
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post #100 of 106
instead of having real wars, we sound only have a cyber world war.... @ least we can respawn...
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