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800 or 1066? - Page 2

post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopficaro View Post
so all ratios aside then, if i am anal and i want my pc to run anally fast i should run the fsb and the memory as fast as they can go?
The simple answer is for the FSB, yes.

The more accurate answer is no. If you want to be anally fast it's going to take a lot of testing to find the optimum settings. You will want to first find the maximum of each component individually, then find a combination that balances the performance of each component.

For example, I found that running my memory DDR1128 5-5-5-15 PL7 @450fsb was slower than DDR1081 4-5-5-15 PL6 @450fsb both in bandwidth and latency. DDR1066 5-5-5-15, DDR1000 4-4-4-12, and DDR800 3-3-3-8 at 400fsb were all pretty comperable in terms of bandwidth, but latency was much reduced by running slower DDR in favor of tighter timings at each step.
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post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by circeseye View Post
ok im confused. i thought running the ram 1:1 is supposed to be the best. am i mistaken. please enlighten me. i really want to know
'

If we go with Intel chipset and 1 : 1 that´s not the best way to go but it´s a diffrent ballgame if we go with Nvidia´s Intel chipset at 1 : 1 and specially when you put 1T in to the game, but first we look at Intel chipset.

Most people think that run FSB400 and mem 800 at 1 : 1 should sync best, 400 with 400 (actual 800, DDR2), sure it sounds logical but not in Intel´s world because you have a thing called MCH Read Delay (tRD) often named "Performence Level" (PL) if you look i Memset (ASUS call it Transaction Booster), if you have high numbers it takes longer to transfer data from the system bus (FSB) to the memory bus and vice versa, latency increase and when you run 1 : 1 it goes up one or two steps from example 5 : 6, 5 : 4, 4 : 3, 3 : 2, and 2 : 1.

Example:

Compare 400 9 3,6GHz, 800 4-4-4-12 PL7 with 400 9 3,6GHz, 1000 5-5-5-15 PL6 and you get better bandwidth and lower latency with 1000 5-5-5-15, so you be better of if you take your 1066 5-5-5-15 and go 1000 5-5-5-15 then with 800 4-4-4-12 and if you game you inprove your fps.

We say you can OC your 800 to 900 and 1066 to 1080, we have this.

Compare 450 8 3,6GHz, 900 4-3-3-10 PL7 with 450 8 3,6GHz, 1080 5-5-5-15 PL7 you get better bandwidth and lower latency with 1080 5-5-5-15 even thou we had the same PL, so you be better of with 1066 OC to 1080 then with 800 OC to 900 and if you game you inprove your fps.

If there is someone that want to dig deeper into Performance Level, read this.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3239

And with this "calculator tool" from OCZ you can calculate which PL you can use or not.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=36360


If we look at Nvidia´s Intel chipset and compare the following.

400 9 3,6GHz, 800 4-4-4-12 1T Trc18 with 1066 5-5-5-15 2T Trc22 you get better bandwidth and lower latency with 800 4-4-4-12 1T Trc18 , so you be better of with 800 4-4-4-12 1T Trc18 then with 1066 5-5-5-15 2T Trc22 and it´s because of the 1T setting and if you game you inprove your fps also.

We say you can OC your 800 to 900 and 1066 to 1080 but you can´t get use 1T with 900 stable so we use 2T then we have this.

450 8 3,6GHz, 900 4-4-4-12 2T Trc18 with 1080 5-5-5-15 2T Trc22, it get so close so you can call it even.

But wait, someone say, on Nvidia you can put in any memspeed coz they have a lot more dividers then Intel, yes that´s true but when you use dividers outside the known Intel dividers you usaully get decrease in bandwidth and increase latency, so use the known Intel dividers and use 1T if you can.

Finally don´t compare bandwidth and latency between Nvidia and Intel coz they are different, compare with fps or time to encoding, decoding or videorendering instead.

After all this said and done I have to quote Ravin.

Quote:
If you want to be anally fast it's going to take a lot of testing to find the optimum settings. You will want to first find the maximum of each component individually, then find a combination that balances the performance of each component.
Could not said it better my self.

Hope this can be a eyeopener for people who still believe that 1 :1 is the best sulution on Intel chipset.

Over and out
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post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostleader View Post
'

If we go with Intel chipset and 1 : 1 that´s not the best way to go but it´s a diffrent ballgame if we go with Nvidia´s Intel chipset at 1 : 1 and specially when you put 1T in to the game, but first we look at Intel chipset.

Most people think that run FSB400 and mem 800 at 1 : 1 should sync best, 400 with 400 (actual 800, DDR2), sure it sounds logical but not in Intel´s world because you have a thing called MCH Read Delay (tRD) often named "Performence Level" (PL) if you look i Memset (ASUS call it Transaction Booster), if you have high numbers it takes longer to transfer data from the system bus (FSB) to the memory bus and vice versa, latency increase and when you run 1 : 1 it goes up one or two steps from example 5 : 6, 5 : 4, 4 : 3, 3 : 2, and 2 : 1.

Example:

Compare 400 9 3,6GHz, 800 4-4-4-12 PL7 with 400 9 3,6GHz, 1000 5-5-5-15 PL6 and you get better bandwidth and lower latency with 1000 5-5-5-15, so you be better of if you take your 1066 5-5-5-15 and go 1000 5-5-5-15 then with 800 4-4-4-12 and if you game you inprove your fps.

We say you can OC your 800 to 900 and 1066 to 1080, we have this.

Compare 450 8 3,6GHz, 900 4-3-3-10 PL7 with 450 8 3,6GHz, 1080 5-5-5-15 PL7 you get better bandwidth and lower latency with 1080 5-5-5-15 even thou we had the same PL, so you be better of with 1066 OC to 1080 then with 800 OC to 900 and if you game you inprove your fps.

If there is someone that want to dig deeper into Performance Level, read this.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3239

And with this "calculator tool" from OCZ you can calculate which PL you can use or not.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=36360


If we look at Nvidia´s Intel chipset and compare the following.

400 9 3,6GHz, 800 4-4-4-12 1T Trc18 with 1066 5-5-5-15 2T Trc22 you get better bandwidth and lower latency with 800 4-4-4-12 1T Trc18 , so you be better of with 800 4-4-4-12 1T Trc18 then with 1066 5-5-5-15 2T Trc22 and it´s because of the 1T setting and if you game you inprove your fps also.

We say you can OC your 800 to 900 and 1066 to 1080 but you can´t get use 1T with 900 stable so we use 2T then we have this.

450 8 3,6GHz, 900 4-4-4-12 2T Trc18 with 1080 5-5-5-15 2T Trc22, it get so close so you can call it even.

But wait, someone say, on Nvidia you can put in any memspeed coz they have a lot more dividers then Intel, yes that´s true but when you use dividers outside the known Intel dividers you usaully get decrease in bandwidth and increase latency, so use the known Intel dividers and use 1T if you can.

Finally don´t compare bandwidth and latency between Nvidia and Intel coz they are different, compare with fps or time to encoding, decoding or videorendering instead.

After all this said and done I have to quote Ravin.



Could not said it better my self.

Hope this can be a eyeopener for people who still believe that 1 :1 is the best sulution on Intel chipset.

Over and out
Well put. I honestly always assume and talk about Intel chipsets. nVidia can and is VERY picky on OC'ed ram. Same with Quads in general, though the 780i has gotten better.
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