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[DT] Microsoft Fights EU's $1.4B USD Fine - Page 4

post #31 of 42
Whats wrong with that?

I mean what's wrong with M$ shipping it with IE?
Shouldn't we sue Apple for making Safari bundle with Mac OS/X?

The user has a choice still it's not like M$ blocked you from downloading other browsers.
post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox View Post
Might I remind you that the media player issue is the smaller half of the EU antitrust case? That the bigger half was the server interoperability issues and the nearly 6% royalties they were charging for other products to have the ability to interface with their servers? That they didn't fully disclose complete and accurate interface information?
6% would be huge... The royalty rate deemed too high was actually 0.7%.

Quote:
Starting June 21, 2006, companies licensing Microsoft's server interoperability protocols had to pay a 0.7 percent royalty rate. The EC put Microsoft on notice that the rate was excessive, but it wasn't until October 21, 2007 that the software giant dropped the rate to 0.4 percent.
[SOURCE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox View Post
Its most definitely not just an "EU temper tantrum and extortion" or "having a superior product."
I agree it's not just EU extortion, but I'm too much of a cynic to write that off completely too...
Edited by MasterKromm - 5/12/08 at 4:47am
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post #33 of 42
...Of course MS are going to fight the ruling, it's far cheaper to pay a bunch of lawyers to fight it, than it is to actually pay the fines.

If MS want to trade in the EU, they have to abide by the laws there, or suffer the consequences. If an EU company wants to trade in the US, they have to abide by US laws, or suffer the consequences. It's as simple as that.

Whatever some American's think about the politics of the EU, the fact remains that when you trade overseas, you have to abide by the laws in those overseas regions. It's the same for every company in the world, regardless of if they are an EU company trading in the US or visa-versa.

The problem is that MS has it so good in the states, with virtual carte-blanche within the markets it's allowed to monopolise by successive US governments, it thinks it should have the same unbalanced advantages everywhere it trades.

I'm not saying the EUs rules are fair or not, or that the US has the right or wrong approach to capitalism. I simply state that when in Rome, you have to do as the Romans do. It's not for MS to tell the EU how to conduct it's self, any more than it is for the EU to tell MS how to operate outside of the EU's jurisdiction.

Seriously, if MS didn't see the massive opportunity for profit in the EU, do you really think they'd be there? MS is a paradigm of a capitalist company. They're not trying to help the EU out by selling their software there, they're trying to tap into and maintain access to the massive profits available. Seriously, 1.4 billion USD might sound a lot to us, but to MS it's just a little over half of their quarterly profit. It's about 14% of their annual profit. They can easily afford it. Which is why they chose not to do as they were ordered the last time the EU had these kinds of dealings with them. They can eat up the fines, fight the court cases and still make a packet; such is their dominance.

Highly-Annoyed
Edited by Highly-Annoyed - 5/12/08 at 5:19am
    
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post #34 of 42
Microsoft isn't the only company involved in price fixing, but they are the biggest one and thus get the brunt of the legal attention. Microsoft probably deserves this fine, but in if it goes through I only hope the EU goes after other companies like Apple as well. Fair is fair.
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post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKromm View Post
6% would be huge... The royalty rate deemed too high was actually 0.7%.

[SOURCE]
That 0.7% figure is after MS got hit with the first round of EU antitrust cases. Notice it said "Starting June 21, 2006, companies payed 0.7% bla bla bla" Prior to the mentioned date, and as a direct result of the antitrust case MS dropped the royalty rate from 5.95% to 0.7%. The EU looked at this and said still too high, so MS reduced it to 0.4%.

[SOURCE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DailyTech
Microsoft had initially demanded a royalty rate totaling 3.87% of a licensee's product revenues and demanded an additional 2.98% of products' revenues from companies seeking access to communications information, which Microsoft deemed highly secret.
[SOURCE]

As you stated, 6% royalties is huge, prohibitively so. Perhaps you now see part of the reason why the EU felt the need to step in?


Quote:
Originally Posted by metala
AFAIK EU is moving to Linux...
Politics and business as dirty things, there are no favors there. There is no past, only now and future.
While you may have got it, I'll say it now just to be sure. That comment you quoted was pure sarcasm, meant only in jest.
Edited by The Bartender Paradox - 5/12/08 at 9:49am
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post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox View Post
That 0.7% figure is after MS got hit with the first round of EU antitrust cases. Notice it said "Starting June 21, 2006, companies payed 0.7% bla bla bla" Prior to the mentioned date, and as a direct result of the antitrust case MS dropped the royalty rate from 5.95% to 0.7%. The EU looked at this and said still too high, so MS reduced it to 0.4%.

[SOURCE]


[SOURCE]

As you stated, 6% royalties is huge, prohibitively so. Perhaps you now see part of the reason why the EU felt the need to step in?
Thanks for clearing that up. I hadn't really kept up on the exact details...

Chronology:

March 2004 : M$ was ordered by EU antitrust commissions to make its media player software compatible with other company's products and to desist in its practice of locking other companies out of its software.

June 21, 2006 : Companies licensing MS's server interoperability protocols had to pay a 0.7 percent royalty rate.

July 7, 2006 : EU feels MS has not complied with the 04 ruling, fines MS $375.4M. MS appeals.

Sept 17, 2007 : MS loses Appeal, because they lost the appeal the fine goes up to $690M and had to pay EU 80% of their attorneys fees.

Oct. 21, 2007 : MS lowers royalty rate to 0.4 percent.

Feb 27, 2008 : The EU states that MS still wasn't in Compliance between July 06 - Oct. 07. The fines is now $1.4bn.

May 11, 2008 : MS is fighting the 1.4bn fine seeks to have it reduced or dropped.

So in the MS spirit of charging exorbitant royalty rates the EU levies an exorbitant fine... Irony, poetic justice, hypocrisy or greed? I really don't care.
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post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox View Post
Fixed.

Rofl
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post #38 of 42
This is the best discussion I've ever seen in this forum... reps around! Both sides!
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post #39 of 42
I still don't get what the big deal is, MS developed the platform, so they should be able to charge whatever they want for people to use it. If they don't want to pay, they can go somewhere else. I agree that they are charging too much, but if you went to an amusement park and found that they were charging $100 to get in and $20 per ride would you go whining to your government that they are being unfair? No, you would just go to that other amusement park where everything was free but there were no employees and you had to operate the rides yourself People are complaining because its MS, which, using my analogy would be like Disneyland. Would people make a big deal out of it and would there be video footage of little children crying all over every tv channel? Yes! Would the US government be able to do anything about it? I doubt it. Just like if they decided to shut it down there is nothing the government could do to keep it open.
    
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post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
I still don't get what the big deal is.
There isn't a big deal. It's really very simple.

Each country has certain laws regulating how companies operate within markets, within those countries. The EU is a collection of countries, which use collective regulations to manage trade within their jurisdiction.

MS's activities didn't comply with EU Law. The EU asked MS to comply. MS refused. MS got fined. MS appealed. MS lost. MS continues to appeal.

It's ridiculously simple. Want to trade within the EU? Do so within the laws that govern trade there. I still don't "get" what all the fuss is about?

If some big EU company went to the US and started to operate outside of the laws there that govern trade, the US would do exactly the same thing as the EU are doing with MS.

I really don't "get" what all the controversy is about... Are people really suggesting that MS should be allowed to do whatever it wants, regardless of local law? Should there be some special exemption for MS, that doesn't apply for any other company?

When you trade in Rome, you trade as the Romans do. Why all the fuss, name-calling and anti-EU sentiment? The US would do exactly the same if the situation were reversed; as would any other country.

It's really perplexing to me, to try to understand what, exactly, people think is going on here that is outside of the ordinary? What's happening, happens in every country around the world every day. The fines might be bigger, the names more well known, but it's just law being enforced, like any other day of the week. How is this so unusual?

What would be unusual is if MS were allowed to do whatever it liked within the EU, regardless of EU law. That would truly be exceptional and out of the ordinary. What's going on here (aside from the numbers involved) is perfectly normal and happens everywhere (including in the US) all the time.

I really do not understand the logic behind the venom, spite, derision and contempt directed towards the EU, when it is doing nothing different than takes place in any country, including the US.

Do people seriously think that the EU should suspend its laws to facilitate MS's agendas? Would they advocate their own country doing so for a foreign company, or even a domestic one? Of course not.

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