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[DvHardware] Intel to force overclockers to buy a Bloomfield? - Page 2

post #11 of 35
Good luck with that Intel, as you can't force me to buy crap. AMD here I come.
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post #12 of 35
they cant force you but if what they offer is faster then what amd offers after oc.. its hard not to buy intel -_-

they are simply trying to make more money which as a company is their goal -_-
now instead of people buying q6600s to get 3+ghz, they can sell a chip at that area for more and have it sell well.
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post #13 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
For me, the whole point of overclocking was to buy a lower priced chip and then increase it to the performance of a higher-end chip. I certainly won't be paying more money to OC something further. I believe that is reserved for a small percentage of OCers. After all, I don't see many on here with the $1000 45nm quad-cores.
Considering the fact that nobody knows just how well the Bloomfield processors will OC, I don't think it will stop enthusiasts from buying it. We have no idea what kind of OC potential the Bloomfield processors have in store. What should be scrutinized upon early release are the prices for these Bloom fields, and the relation between the price and OC potential. Sure, the price/performance ratio is now being blown out of the water, but we still don't know how high they will OC, how cool they will be upon OCing, and how much voltage will be required for said OC. Once these elements are brought to light, we will see if this market division will be a good thing or a total bomb. If it bombs, then more people will go for AMD, but if it turns out to be one hell of a cool OCing processor (5 GHz on air or some crap), then it will not matter if enthusiasts have to spend more on a more expensive processor.
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post #14 of 35
I think you people fail to realize that this is Intel handing us what we have always wanted. Our very own platform. Now it is clearly stated without breaking any NDA by an Intel employee in good standing at extreme that the lowest cost Bloomfields will run about $400 I would rather trust him than FUD or any other source right now. Did you think that it was going to be cheap to finally get an enthusiast platform. Please. I see this one way. Intel has listened somewhat and they give us our own chipsets and now chips and people get pissed because you can't just buy a low end chip and crank it up anymore. Oh well. I don't mind paying what maybe $100 more for an ocing chip. Look at the prices of some of the chips running in sig rigs here and there really isn't much difference in price now is there. We know nothing about this and its become an issue.
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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
lol. I knew posting this that Fudzilla is not what OCN users such as yourself would call a reliable source. I still posted because its not impossible and I'm sure on the off chance that it does turn out to be true those of us who live to play "the waiting game" would have some sort of heads up.
I just got the crap kicked out of me for posting the thread I linked to because it was Fudzilla, so..

No, but really, the prospect is ridiculous. Look at this:

1: 'High end desktop' to Intel doesn't just mean gaming, it's most users that use their PCs for more than Gmail, looking at photo albums and porn. Multimedia uses, semi-workstation uses, and so on. This is what the c2qs are for.
2: If the desktop LGA1366 platform only included 'Extreme Edition' processors, overclockers and people who do a little research would just buy the equivalent Xeon instead.
3: Intel knows this, so there's no reason for them not to launch 'regular' locked-multiplier processors for the desktop LGA1366 platform.
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post #16 of 35
I will repost what was posted in the other thread with the same basic topic, there was a link to another forum with an intel employee, if you read through all of his posts you would come to this conclusion.

Quote:
If you read that other thread that was linked above to another forum you can read responses from someone who works at intel.

Basicially he is saying that the high end cpu's will still overclock, they will have better memory controllers(3 channel) and other toys, they should come in around $400 to start and go up. They are saying the basic cpu's will be locked, not because intel doesn't want overclocking but because its a side effect of the cheap cpu's. The cheap cpu's account for 98% of intel's business but as a way not to forget the enthusiast they have made a line just for them.

I am sure this also lets them account for the cost of burnt up cpu's that are rma'ed. I understand why people are mad(no more $60 e2180's that do 3ghz, or e8400's for $170 that do 4ghz). I think this is a wait and see deal.
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post #17 of 35
Of course there will be a drastic change in how Intel CPU's would be overclocked. Right now overclocks are performed by increaseing the FSB. However, with the new CPU's there is no FSB. Intel are implementing a new type of data bus for the system and this will obviously affect the methods available in overclocking the CPU's.
post #18 of 35
More: http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7724.html

Quote:
It wasn't long ago the first story about how Intel was trying to stop people from overclocking its mid-range chips of the upcoming Nehalem family was posted. We doubted the fact that Intel would actively work against partners as we found little to no support for these claims. The next story has now been posted by the people over at Fudzilla and without trying to offend anyone, it looks a bit silly. Nehalem is a whole new architecture and it's a bit different from today's Core architecture.

"As Intel seems to want to push the much more expensive Bloomfield platform to overclockers, the company implemented a lock that prevents these new processors from being overclocked by adding two PLL clock generators, one inside the CPU itself and one in the PCH.

This might not sound like it's a big problem in itself, but what Intel has done is that these two will clock generators will reference each other; and this means that just changing the bus speed won't have any effect if you're trying to overclock the CPU as it will dissregard the information from the PCH if it's not a correct value."

While it's true Intel has moved the PLL and memory controller on-die from the northbridge, it's not to stop people from overclocking, its to save costs, improve performance and reduce power. And then there's the big plus that less circuits are required to make the motherboard, which makes it cheaper too. This will please more than 95% of all buyers. The problem is that we don't know if the PLL/reference frequency will be locked from factory, but the multiplier most likely will be.

Bloomfield, the high-end sort, will sport an internal QPI (QuickPath Interconnect) controller, which will be used to overclock the processor. The frequency of the QPI controller will be the reference through which memory and clock frequency will be calculated via dividers. The frequency of the QPI controller is in turn controlled by manipulating the PLL inside the Tylersbyrg/X58 northbridge. The way we're used to do things, more or less.

Lynnfield and Havendale lacks the QPI controller, and the northbridge PLL has been moved on-die, which makes it hard to find any real means for altering the clock frequency, IF the PLL is locked, which we can't be certain it is. Fudzilla also states that there is a second PLL which acts as a roadblock for anyone who wants to overclock. We haven't seen or heard of anything like that. With lack of inside information on the exact structure of the mid-range Nehalem chips, we can't be certain of anything right now, but looking at the architecture we can only conclude that overclocking will be different, but there's not much saying it will be impossible.

Lynnfield and Havendale may be mid-range, but they are what Nehalem is mainly about. The northbridge has been moved onto the processor and the more complete package will save both Intel and the consumers a lot of money. The problem is that this approach made it harder to overclock them, which alienated the enthusiast community. I.e. me and you. That's why Bloomfield was created so that there would still be an enthusiast option for the Intel users, and if you're worried you will have to pay $1,000 to get a processor that can actually be overclocked, don't be. There will be more affordable Bloomfields, although not as cheap as the mid-range.

That Intel is "unlikely to give out this information to third-party motherboard manufacturers" is something the FUD crew will have present some evidence for, because that seems like something that would come back and bite Intel hard on the ass. Partners are prone to find workarounds when there's a lot of publicity and consumer support to be gained. If Intel's doesn't give out this information, there will be a race betwen ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, abit, DFI, and the rest to see who will get the overclocking of mid-range Nehalem chips first. We're not saying it's going to be easy, but its unavoidable more or less.

That is if it's even possible to do so, which we sincerely hope. Otherwise AMD might be back in charge with the mid-range overclockers, which is actually the majority of all overclockers. It doesn't matter if AMD's processors might be slower to begin with, it's the thrill of overclocking them that makes us tick. Pushing them step further each time, and if Intel's processors won't overclock people will just have to overclock AMD's processors.
Look, someone is actually able to look at this with a critical eye. He has come to the same conclusions anyone who read the thread I linked to at XS read.

t4ct1c47, AMD hasn't had an FSB for years, we're still overclocking just fine. You're still altering the bus speed that gets multiplied to determine the CPU clock, it's just a different bus with a different design, construction and name.
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post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICYUNVME View Post
I think you people fail to realize that this is Intel handing us what we have always wanted. Our very own platform. Now it is clearly stated without breaking any NDA by an Intel employee in good standing at extreme that the lowest cost Bloomfields will run about $400 I would rather trust him than FUD or any other source right now. Did you think that it was going to be cheap to finally get an enthusiast platform. Please. I see this one way. Intel has listened somewhat and they give us our own chipsets and now chips and people get pissed because you can't just buy a low end chip and crank it up anymore. Oh well. I don't mind paying what maybe $100 more for an ocing chip. Look at the prices of some of the chips running in sig rigs here and there really isn't much difference in price now is there. We know nothing about this and its become an issue.
1. The high end chips are usually like $500 more.

2. The point of OC'ing is to get better value out of your chip because you're poor, not because it's part of the in crowd.

3. Why would i be happier to pay higher prices? I don't quite understand that. They haven't given us an enthusiast platform, they've repackaged what they ALREADY OFFER and just forced enthusiasts to pay more. That's it.
    
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post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhill2029 View Post
It's not going to be the downfall of Intel, enthusiasts like ourselfs hold a very very tiny percentage of the market. I mean really..........small.
Yeah, But we DO convince family, businesses, etc to buy certain parts, eg, When my aunt brought a computer, I told her Athlon64 was faster than Pentium 4 at the time, so she brought a Athlon64 PC.
    
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