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[PCGH] Valve about DX10 in the Source engine - Page 5

post #41 of 55
Either way, they eventually have to adopt DX10. They seem to just be beating around the bush. I just don't buy the "our survey says" bit. If companies had that attitude then we would see even less DX10 games. So what if the new standard forces you to buy a new card? Wouldn't one do that anyways? DX10 cards are more than affordable now. Besides, I bet Valve could code a DX10 game 100+ times more efficient than what others have been doing, and giving the track record of the Source engine, that is not hard to imagine. I wouldn't be surprised that a 8600 type card could be able to run a DX10 Source game with better than average performance.
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post #42 of 55
Personally, I think it's smart to not yet adopt DX10, but at the same time; they will have to use it eventually. Just like the conversion from DX8 to DX9, and Windows 2000 to Windows XP.

Unless of course they can find an advantage to making DX9 games also have a DX10 mode with the DX9 mode.
post #43 of 55
I would rather have source . . with simple but decent looking textures and great gameplay and great performance and a large fanbase of people with old and new computers than play a very demending, low volume of user, great looking game. . .but thats just me.
 
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post #44 of 55
one way you could look at it is that Valve sees there is so much in DX9 we haven't used why use DX10?

another way to see it is that people don't want to move on to better technology because old stuff works for them. we can't stay in the past if we want skynet...
post #45 of 55
The source engine can make DX9 look as good as anything, just check out Episode 2.

my respect for Valve just increased even more. Sure i have a DX10 card and Vista...but im impressed how they pushed aside the current urge to be the latest and greatest in the tech market and focus on pleasing and providing for us, the gamers.

Valve ftw.
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post #46 of 55
It's good to know that Valve is acting on their own. ATI would probably have tried taking advantage of their lead in Direct3D 10.1 and support Valve in porting the Source engine for that. Although with D3D 10.1 nVidia cards on the horizon and no new Valve games coming before that, they might have decided it wasn't worth it.

They don't necessarily have to break the old DX9 code, because if ever they do move to DX10 it would be more like extra treats for the folks with Vista and new hardware. A move from D3D to OpenGL 3.0 would be more significant IMO.
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post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkheii View Post
It's good to know that Valve is acting on their own. ATI would probably have tried taking advantage of their lead in Direct3D 10.1 and support Valve in porting the Source engine for that. Although with D3D 10.1 nVidia cards on the horizon and no new Valve games coming before that, they might have decided it wasn't worth it.

They don't necessarily have to break the old DX9 code, because if ever they do move to DX10 it would be more like extra treats for the folks with Vista and new hardware. A move from D3D to OpenGL 3.0 would be more significant IMO.
yeah..i dunno if Half-Life would suit OpenGL engines. OpenGL tends to make things look very shiny, almost artificial. DirectX, imo, has a much more realistic and sharper look.
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post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtarmanrob View Post
yeah..i dunno if Half-Life would suit OpenGL engines. OpenGL tends to make things look very shiny, almost artificial. DirectX, imo, has a much more realistic and sharper look.
Not necessarily, since they're just APIs for graphics programming. The shiny, artificial look is that back then OpenGL was still more popular than Direct3D (since it was new) and shaders weren't as advanced. Doom 3's graphics were coded in OpenGL, for example. Any Linux-based console is more than likely to be using OpenGL. D3D and OGL use different shader programming languages (HLSL and GLSL respectively). I'm not familiar with shader programming so don't take my word for it, but while the effects they can achieve should be the same theoretically, if one of the languages happens to support more advanced programming language constructs or new hardware features and a certain shader effect depends on that feature then that's where the differences in visual quality would be. However, given GLSL and HLSL shader programs that "output the same thing," the graphical output should be the same. HLSL was developed alongside nVidia's own Cg shader language, by the way.

I'm guessing it's because of MS's faster, discrete updates of D3D that reflect the changes in cutting-edge hardware technology that OGL was left behind (at least as far as Windows games are concerned). The new OGL 3.0 specifications are taking forever.

The primary incentive for OGL is that being non-proprietary, many other OSes besides Windows will also have support for it. This makes porting to different platforms much easier, but the best thing that could happen is that middleware graphics engine developers (such as Bioware, Epic, Gamebryo, etc.) begin to show more support for OGL. If middleware engines made porting much easier by supporting cross-platform APIs instead of proprietary ones, we'll probably see more cross-platform releases.
Edited by arkheii - 5/15/08 at 11:50pm
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post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
Either way, they eventually have to adopt DX10. They seem to just be beating around the bush. I just don't buy the "our survey says" bit. If companies had that attitude then we would see even less DX10 games. So what if the new standard forces you to buy a new card? Wouldn't one do that anyways? DX10 cards are more than affordable now. Besides, I bet Valve could code a DX10 game 100+ times more efficient than what others have been doing, and giving the track record of the Source engine, that is not hard to imagine. I wouldn't be surprised that a 8600 type card could be able to run a DX10 Source game with better than average performance.
1. Why would a company go through all that hassle when only 5% of it's fanbase can see a benefit?

2. Dx10 cards are ONE part of the equation. People also need Vista and at least 2 gigs of ram and possibly a better processor than what they already have. That's around $500 that most of us who work and pay real bills do not have to splurge on when we possibly just bought new stuff just 2 yrs ago. Take me for example. I need to upgrade but new couches, clothes, shoes, car parts, dresser, car stereo, and car amps comes first. Valve understands that if they force a customer to upgrade, they're upping the competition for themselves from just 'which game is best for $50'.

3. Why are you so intent on having a company force us to upgrade? How did that work out for Crysis? A company only has so many things it can do at once. Would you rather they work on giving you eye candy or would you like a fun and enjoyable game? Too many game developers go for shiny eye candy that plays like garbage. It's like a movie....do you want better acting and story or do you want more cgi graphics.

4. Yes, they will eventually adapt for Dx10 but why rush it? If anything i admire valve for their ability to make my system last as long as possible. It's as though they understand that not everyone is made of money and they help me get the most value for my computer that I possibly can.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 5/16/08 at 12:05am
    
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post #50 of 55
Agreed, and TBH I think that Valve might just skip DX10 and go right to DX11 when the time comes (Maybe a couple of years down the road when HL3 gets released). Just because it seems as though every even numbered DX level is a beta for the real thing to come. Just like how DX6 wasn't anything special but DX7 was way better and it was the same thing with DX8 and DX9. Now that DX10 is out it is barely better than DX9 but DX11 should be something amazing.
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