Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [hardocp] Coders Tell Why They’re Avoiding Vista
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[hardocp] Coders Tell Why They’re Avoiding Vista - Page 2

post #11 of 28
It's my educated opinion that many industry applications should be rewritten entirely. Many of them utilise cobalt, and good luck finding programmers that can write in that language. Software is only as clever as those who wrote it in the first place. You don't blame the operateing system if there are compatibility issues, you either edit, or rewrite, the software.
Edited by t4ct1c47 - 5/18/08 at 8:33pm
post #12 of 28
well the same thing happened when Xp was released. Coders weren't gonna even touch the OS until sp2 came out. Give it time guys people are going to move from xp to vista its just a matter of time.
post #13 of 28
Sounds similar to the adoption of X86-64. There are still very few x64 applications being written relative to 32-bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aakar View Post
well the same thing happened when Xp was released. Coders weren't gonna even touch the OS until sp2 came out.
No.

XP could/can run apps written for NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 just fine, with less in the way of compatability problems than the current situation with Vista (which is admittedly overstated). The API was almost completely identical.

There were also tons of programs written with XP in mind well before SP2 came out.
Primary
(15 items)
 
Secondary
(13 items)
 
In progress
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4.3/3.6GHz core/uncore, 1.225/1.2v Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion (F22n) 2x Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC New Edition (10036... 4x4GiB Crucial @ 2667, 12-11-12-27-T1, 1.37v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Plextor M6e 128GB (fw 1.05) M.2 (PCI-E 2.0 2x) 2x Crucial M4 256GB 4x WD Scorpio Black 500GB Cooler Master Nepton 280L 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 BenQ BL3200PT Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (MX Brown) Corsair RM1000x 
CaseMouseAudio
Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
  hide details  
Reply
Primary
(15 items)
 
Secondary
(13 items)
 
In progress
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4.3/3.6GHz core/uncore, 1.225/1.2v Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion (F22n) 2x Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC New Edition (10036... 4x4GiB Crucial @ 2667, 12-11-12-27-T1, 1.37v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Plextor M6e 128GB (fw 1.05) M.2 (PCI-E 2.0 2x) 2x Crucial M4 256GB 4x WD Scorpio Black 500GB Cooler Master Nepton 280L 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 BenQ BL3200PT Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (MX Brown) Corsair RM1000x 
CaseMouseAudio
Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
  hide details  
Reply
post #14 of 28
These guys are gonna be in for a real shock if the rumors are true that with windows 7 or the next OS they are going to completely throw away backwards compatability in order to make a clean break for new progress. All these coders saying they won't rewrite for vista cause it's too much work are gonna be #@% out of jobs when that change comes.
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k ASRock Z77 Extreme6 EVGA GTX 980ti Superclock 4x4GB Samsung 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD840 2xMaxtor 200gb RAID0 Customer water cooling with '77 Bonneville rad Windows 10 Professional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
27" Korean 1440p Razor mechanical Corsair TH850W CM Stacker 810 
MouseMouse Pad
Razor Lachesis generic 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k ASRock Z77 Extreme6 EVGA GTX 980ti Superclock 4x4GB Samsung 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD840 2xMaxtor 200gb RAID0 Customer water cooling with '77 Bonneville rad Windows 10 Professional 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
27" Korean 1440p Razor mechanical Corsair TH850W CM Stacker 810 
MouseMouse Pad
Razor Lachesis generic 
  hide details  
Reply
post #15 of 28
For the most part, it's not the programmers being lazy. It has more to do with the bean counters. They won't let us do anything that doesn't turn a profit. Most of the developers I know want to move things forward. Also, the good developers future is solid. We can't hire enough people (for what the bean counters want to pay.)

Speaking of bean counters, I'd better get back to work.....
My new system
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K Asus P9X79 HD 7850 Samsung 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Vertex 4  Samsung 830 Spinpoint F3 Some DVD I had laying around. 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
XSPC Raystorm EX240 w/ D5 W7 Pro 64 Samsung 23" Seasonic 650x 
Case
Fractal Design Arc Midi 
  hide details  
Reply
My new system
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K Asus P9X79 HD 7850 Samsung 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Vertex 4  Samsung 830 Spinpoint F3 Some DVD I had laying around. 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
XSPC Raystorm EX240 w/ D5 W7 Pro 64 Samsung 23" Seasonic 650x 
Case
Fractal Design Arc Midi 
  hide details  
Reply
post #16 of 28
Sounds like the same reason that C++ is still the main coding language (at least for games). Most 3rd party engines and apps only support C++, so developers are unwilling to move to new languages, despite their benefits. Of course, C++ is still better performance-wise than most new languages, so that is another reason. But I heard the same argument when people were switching from assembly to C, and from C to C++.
Foldatron
(17 items)
 
Mat
(10 items)
 
Work iMac
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 950 EVGA x58 3-way SLI EVGA GTX 660ti GTX 275 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 80GB Intel X25-M SSD 2TB WD Black 150GB WD Raptor 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
2x 150GB WD V-raptor in RAID0 Win7 Home 64-bit OEM 55" LED 120hz 1080p Vizio MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 
PowerCase
750W PC P&C Silencer CoolerMaster 690 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5 2500S AMD 6770M 8GB (2x4GB) at 1333Mhz 1TB, 7200 rpm 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
LG 8X Dual-Layer "SuperDrive" OS X Lion 27" iMac screen Mac wireless keyboard 
Mouse
Mac wireless mouse 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2600K AMD 6970M 1GB 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1TB 7200rpm 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB SSD 8x DL "SuperDrive" OS X 10.7 Lion 27" 2560x1440 iMac display 
Monitor
27" Apple thunderbolt display 
  hide details  
Reply
Foldatron
(17 items)
 
Mat
(10 items)
 
Work iMac
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 950 EVGA x58 3-way SLI EVGA GTX 660ti GTX 275 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 80GB Intel X25-M SSD 2TB WD Black 150GB WD Raptor 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
2x 150GB WD V-raptor in RAID0 Win7 Home 64-bit OEM 55" LED 120hz 1080p Vizio MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 
PowerCase
750W PC P&C Silencer CoolerMaster 690 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5 2500S AMD 6770M 8GB (2x4GB) at 1333Mhz 1TB, 7200 rpm 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
LG 8X Dual-Layer "SuperDrive" OS X Lion 27" iMac screen Mac wireless keyboard 
Mouse
Mac wireless mouse 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2600K AMD 6970M 1GB 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1TB 7200rpm 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB SSD 8x DL "SuperDrive" OS X 10.7 Lion 27" 2560x1440 iMac display 
Monitor
27" Apple thunderbolt display 
  hide details  
Reply
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by t4ct1c47 View Post
It's my educated opinion that many industry applications should be rewritten entirely. Many of them utilise cobalt, and good luck finding programmers that can write in that language. Software is only as clever as those who wrote it in the first place. You don't blame the operateing system if there are compatibility issues, you either edit, or rewrite, the software.
Do you mean COBOL? I use to dabble in it when working on our old mainframe.
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #18 of 28
This coder says it's a childish article.
Edited by Licht - 5/19/08 at 10:39am
Lee XT
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 Asus M5A97 SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7850 AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H80 Windows 8.1 Pro MCE Dell P2414H WHXV7  Microsoft Generic 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Ultra 600W Limited Edition NZXT Black Steel Razer Deathadder Razer Goliath 
Audio
Realtek HD Audio 
  hide details  
Reply
Lee XT
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 Asus M5A97 SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7850 AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ AMD 4GB DDR3 1333MHZ OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H80 Windows 8.1 Pro MCE Dell P2414H WHXV7  Microsoft Generic 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Ultra 600W Limited Edition NZXT Black Steel Razer Deathadder Razer Goliath 
Audio
Realtek HD Audio 
  hide details  
Reply
post #19 of 28
For once in my life, I feel a little sorry for M$. Hopefully they can fix all this mess with Windows 7. The break from legacy support is going to hurt, but it's a necessary hurdle. Vista really was a disaster in this sense, because it went half way. Either Vista should have broken legacy support, or it should have been the final OS to run everything without issue.

If people REALLY want the OS they are asking for (faster boot, more responsive, more stable, etc), then they are going to have to give up their old toys. It's a rough road ahead, but GOD do we need to go down it.
DankoniQuad
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 G0 @ 3.4GHz (425x8) 1.392 vCore Gigabyte EP45-UD3P EVGA GTX 280 Mushkin Redline 2x2GB DDR2-1000 @ 1063MHz 5-5-5-12 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2xWD6400AAKS RAID0 + Samsung F3EG 2TB + 500GB Ext. Samsung SH-S203B Vista Ultimate 64-bit Acer B233HUbmidhz 
PowerCase
Corsair TX750W Antec Nine Hundred 
  hide details  
Reply
DankoniQuad
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 G0 @ 3.4GHz (425x8) 1.392 vCore Gigabyte EP45-UD3P EVGA GTX 280 Mushkin Redline 2x2GB DDR2-1000 @ 1063MHz 5-5-5-12 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2xWD6400AAKS RAID0 + Samsung F3EG 2TB + 500GB Ext. Samsung SH-S203B Vista Ultimate 64-bit Acer B233HUbmidhz 
PowerCase
Corsair TX750W Antec Nine Hundred 
  hide details  
Reply
post #20 of 28
At the end of the day, its the CONSUMER who forks out for the kit and software in the first place.
Most of our customers we sell to STILL want XP DESKTOP machines, the laptops are a different story, most people arent too bothered.

They want a desktop machine to fit nicely into place with all the rest of thier networked hardware. Customers want stuff that WORKS and are not willing to pay for and then go through ANY problems trying to integrate Vista into their Companys way of doing things.

Vista has to get a HUGE market share before software is rewritten for it.
Raven
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
XEON X5470 @ 4.0Ghz ASUS P5Q PRO TURBO ASUS 290X DCU2 EK Full Waterblock 6GB OCZ Reaper PC2-9200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ Vertex 4 128GB HP P212/512MB Cache 4 x 1TB SAS 6G Sony Blu Ray 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EK Supremacy EVO EK D5 Vario Pump, EK Res X3 250 EK CoolStream WE540 with FM181 x3 Windows 7 Pro 64BIT 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
HP ZR24w, Optoma DX606, 84" Panoview Corsair TX750v2 Silverstone RV-02 Black Corsair M65 
Audio
Essence STX 
  hide details  
Reply
Raven
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
XEON X5470 @ 4.0Ghz ASUS P5Q PRO TURBO ASUS 290X DCU2 EK Full Waterblock 6GB OCZ Reaper PC2-9200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ Vertex 4 128GB HP P212/512MB Cache 4 x 1TB SAS 6G Sony Blu Ray 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EK Supremacy EVO EK D5 Vario Pump, EK Res X3 250 EK CoolStream WE540 with FM181 x3 Windows 7 Pro 64BIT 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
HP ZR24w, Optoma DX606, 84" Panoview Corsair TX750v2 Silverstone RV-02 Black Corsair M65 
Audio
Essence STX 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Software News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [hardocp] Coders Tell Why They’re Avoiding Vista