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[BT] Wild Tangent: "Consoles are dead" - Page 2

post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by binormalkilla View Post
Here's an idea: neither consoles nor PCs are dead
Took the word from my mouth.
post #12 of 28
this is stupid..... dude is not a gamer
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post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
Whilst I'll never own a console, heres my reasons why consoles arent dead:

The majority of folk aren't interested in performing every possible task on their PC. They don't want a PC in their living room. They want a "do it all" PS3 or XBOX. It's neat, it's simple, and most importantly its not a PC. As shocking as it is to hear, some people come home from work and don't want to even look at a PC.
how on earth is it simple?. you contradict yourself entirely there. it's the fact that its not simple that is the problem. If anything, its the complete opposite. as ive said, countless times; if a problem arises, the user cannot to jack to repair it, they must send it back to manufacturer. PC's offer massive flexability both for repair and usage. PC wins hands down. because, sinse IBM introduced the first one, we've had plenty of time to standardise, simplify, and pefect it.

and the Nintendo Wii wins the console crown for ITS simplicity. and the standard "100% guarantee" games will run on it. the only thing Sony and Microsoft's console's contribute to the industy is overhyped, underperforming games, along with making lockups and hardware failures acceptable.
Edited by Thingamajig - 5/19/08 at 8:41am
post #14 of 28
"IMO consoles should have stuck to what they were good at in the SNES, Playstation 1, N64, Sega Genesis days. Inexpensive game systems (like around $200) that charge more for games (I remember paying $98 dollars for a new Power Ranger game for my SNES in 1996)"

"Computer should be as they were back then, a place for online gaming, better graphics, and everything else we love about PCs."

.
    
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post #15 of 28
Consoles are really got for the price. Many different games come for consoles which makes them more unique then PC. I don't think consoles will die because the average Joe still believes PS3 has way superior graphics then a PC.
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post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimusPrime View Post
this is stupid..... dude is not a gamer
Actually the reality is quite the contrary. He is one of the founding developers for DirectX, and I'm sure has coded his fair share of games. He writes a column for Computer Power User, and is an intelligent guy. I think he may have some valid points, but I disagree that it's dead. I think that some of the gaming companies may need to rethink their pricing and hardware design to maximize profit margins on the next gen systems, as it seems to be a bigger and bigger gamble with each gen of console.
AFAIK this gen is the first to have companies sell their consoles at a loss, while making it up in games....I think N64 about broke even for manufacturing costs vs sale prices.....not sure though.

I mean the PS3 is an amazing deal: a Blu-Ray player, media center hub, AND a gaming system all in one. THe only reason I don't own one is that it doesn't burn Blu-Ray discs.....well that and I don't play console games.
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post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingamajig View Post
how on earth is it simple?. you contradict yourself entirely there. it's the fact that its not simple that is the problem. If anything, its the complete opposite. as ive said, countless times; if a problem arises, the user cannot to jack to repair it, they must send it back to manufacturer. PC's offer massive flexability both for repair and usage. PC wins hands down. because, sinse IBM introduced the first one, we've had plenty of time to standardise, simplify, and pefect it.

and the Nintendo Wii wins the console crown for ITS simplicity. and the standard "100% guarantee" games will run on it. the only thing Sony and Microsoft's console's contribute to the industy is overhyped, underperforming games, along with making lockups and hardware failures acceptable.
The majority of people don't know jack about repairing a PC either; they send it away to get repaired much like they would do with their PC.

A PC needs set up. You have to configure/install software to get certain features, compatibility is even MORE of a problem with a PC because there is no way developers can account for EVERY hardware/software setup.

Consoles ARE standardised. The hardware does not vary hugely from machine to machine (Maybe only slightly in the revision of board/firmware etc). You buy a PS3 for example and it just works out of the box and plays bluray and games and CD's and DVD's without all the hassle assosciated with a PC, and don't even begin to type "What do you mean?" because you know EXACTLY what I mean.

I also think you misinterpret my post as some sort of attack on the Nintendo Wii (Which you appear to own judging by your tone). I think the Nintendo Wii is a great wee console (Hah, pardon the pun). But it deserves a different class of it's own because its something radically different from the usual console trend. My original post you quoted is dictating specific reasons certain consoles with extra media features will not "die" as the OP claims.

I also do not understand the last point you make about compatibility with games. What do you mean by this? Are you saying that if I buy a PS3 certain PS3 games will not work with it? As far as I'm aware in order to be sold as a PS3, XBOX 360, Wii game (whatever, brand is not important) it has been developed for and will work on the said console. Are you somehow implying otherwise?

It is also extremely naive to claim that one console will never fail. One thing that you must learn is that hardware fails from time to time. Sure companies can minimise the risk of failure by increasing component quality, increase cooling, reduce TDP, etc etc, but you can never make anything un-failable. Now I know that both the 360 and PS3 have overheating problems, but as far as I am aware these issues have been addressed. The Wii will undoubtedly also had it's share of failures aswell. It's inevitable. One reason the Wii hasn't failed as much as the rest is perhpas because its TDP is much lower due to the slower components it consists of. I'm not attacking the Wii, I'm just pointing things out you appear to have disregarded in your arguement.

Now to finish my arguement: My posts are my interpretation of the market as a whole, not individuals like myself who could quite easily build/repair/upgrade/configure the necessary software for a media centre PC capable of Blu Ray, Gaming, etc. It is highly ignorant to believe every market user to be of the same capability in terms of technology as yourself.

So yes, this is why consoles are not dead. You plug them in, and if they aren't DOA, they do their job cheaper than PC of equivalent capability, with the trade-of being more expensive games.
    
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post #18 of 28
Consoles will eventually kill themselves out, every time they become more and more like computers, with the exception of the Wii.

Once we get photorealistic graphics, you can't go any farther than that.
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post #19 of 28
I have not used a console (for more than a few minutes anyway) since my NES. There are some games that I have seen that would work well with the console style controllers. I tried (and failed badly) to play COD4 on an Xbox360. I got so frustrated with the controller I just walked away before I broke it. Now give me a mouse and keyboard and I am pretty good at that game.

I have also tried the Wii after watching the nieces and nephews have fun at it and I like the controller idea. The games are a little cheesy looking, but that is what it is all about. I was recently given a Wii as bonus for a project we just completed. I went to the store and saw the price of the games, so the Wii is still in it's box and will remain there until I sell it.

So for some games I see how a console will fit the bill. For other games, they just don't seem to work right. Yet. Plus the cost difference is crazy. At least $10 more for the console version? That just don't seem right...
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post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
The majority of people don't know jack about repairing a PC either; they send it away to get repaired much like they would do with their PC..
Yep, thats dead true. however, another truth is that learning to repair one is still possible, and made easier due to the evolution and standardization over the PC's lifetime. same cannot be said for consoles, (of any type) as they are proprietary

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
A PC needs set up. You have to configure/install software to get certain features, compatibility is even MORE of a problem with a PC because there is no way developers can account for EVERY hardware/software setup.
I also completely agree with this, its true. but again another reality is the huge number of uses a P.C offers the user, besides gaming, of course. thats the trade-off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
Consoles ARE standardised. The hardware does not vary hugely from machine to machine (Maybe only slightly in the revision of board/firmware etc). You buy a PS3 for example and it just works out of the box and plays bluray and games and CD's and DVD's without all the hassle assosciated with a PC, and don't even begin to type "What do you mean?" because you know EXACTLY what I mean.
They are not standardized at all. as i said previously, they are proprietary. this is intentional by the manufacturer's in a bid to stop the consumers/third party modifying the unit in some way. (very much like Apple's control over thier systems) the only thing that this would apply to is that the PS3/360/Wii using standardized interfaces such as USB 2.0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
I also think you misinterpret my post as some sort of attack on the Nintendo Wii (Which you appear to own judging by your tone). I think the Nintendo Wii is a great wee console (Hah, pardon the pun). But it deserves a different class of it's own because its something radically different from the usual console trend. My original post you quoted is dictating specific reasons certain consoles with extra media features will not "die" as the OP claims.
Not at all, didn't mean to come across harsh, i have a tendancy to do that. sorry . i enjoy these debates. but yes, obviously i do own a Wii .

You've confused me with the "Radically different from the usual console trend" part though. the only thing "radically different" is the new user interface. other than that, its following console tradition down to the bone. thats its massive appeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
I also do not understand the last point you make about compatibility with games. What do you mean by this? Are you saying that if I buy a PS3 certain PS3 games will not work with it? As far as I'm aware in order to be sold as a PS3, XBOX 360, Wii game (whatever, brand is not important) it has been developed for and will work on the said console. Are you somehow implying otherwise?
I'm largely reffering to the instability both the PS3 and (without doubt), the 360 offers. because of thier additional uses and complexity, they do have a much higher chance of siezing up during gameplay (Speaking from experience here...) when you look back on console history part of the main reason to game on a console was for the 100% guarantee that the game will run flawlessly on the system. in a way, thier simplicity was thier selling point. and obviously still is.Nintendo have noticed this, kept things simple and made a unique input device to help sell thier product and keep things fresh... which has worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
It is also extremely naive to claim that one console will never fail. One thing that you must learn is that hardware fails from time to time. Sure companies can minimise the risk of failure by increasing component quality, increase cooling, reduce TDP, etc etc, but you can never make anything un-failable.
I don't remember saying anything like that. lol.

Of course, some care is required for the user, that goes without saying. but more care is required with Sony and M$'s latest platforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
The Wii will undoubtedly also had it's share of failures aswell. It's inevitable. One reason the Wii hasn't failed as much as the rest is perhpas because its TDP is much lower due to the slower components it consists of. I'm not attacking the Wii, I'm just pointing things out you appear to have disregarded in your arguement.
I'm not denying that - its a fact of life. natural wear and tear. but again because of the simplistic nature of the Wii the odds of a failure both hardware and software wise are far, far less likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
Now I know that both the 360 and PS3 have overheating problems, but as far as I am aware these issues have been addressed.
I find it tragic how 3 people i know have had to send thier 360 back for repairs because of this rediculous heat issue. i watched how they'd sit there completely powerless (as its a proprietary system) while the console would lockup or not even boot (RROD) the fact that Microsoft released this..."console" in this state is completely unforgivable in my eyes. (i must admit though, i did enjoy giving them the "i told you so" look. XD)

If it was a PC. it would be far easier for them to repair (mostly reffering to hardware problems here) because of thier massive flexability. and because its hardware is standardized and not proprietary, it will be far, far easier for them to do so. so why should the consumer tolerate the usual pc misbehavior on a console platform?. (my PC, which is a media pc, is far more stable than what any PS3 or 360 have ever been. couple this with the modding community for gaming and your set for life)

Ive seen PS3&360 gamers "mod" thier consoles, and i just find it hilarious. Metaphorically speaking; its like watching toddler's playing in a playpen, practicing for the real thing (PC) with Sony and Microsoft as the babysitter's.

This is my philosophy:

Hardcore Gaming and everyting else: PC

quick, casual, console fun (the way console gaming should be): Nintendo

so i still stand by what i said on the first page:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingamajig
if your idea of a console is a media hub (PS3 & 360) then yes, as far as i'm concerned, its dead.

However, judging by Wii sales, and provided Nintendo keep with the console tradition. then it certainly isn't.

Edited by Thingamajig - 5/19/08 at 3:07pm
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