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post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacized View Post
I don't know how many system have you tried so far, you must have not experienced how bottlenecking is like, and 40 fps isnt a small difference, it's high.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...de,1928-5.html
First of all, don't use ad hominem, please. I've "worked with" plenty of systems, but that means NOTHING in regards to asking for proof of other's claims of certain CPU/GPU "bottlenecks".

And the difference I was clearly referring to (in your situation) was the 9FPS difference you were getting. (289 to 298). That is a merely a ~3 percent improvement from overclocking your CPU from 2.66GHz to 3.6GHz

But I think you're confusing something here. I never said "bottlenecks don't exist". I know they exist. So trying to prove to me that bottlenecks actually happen is redundant.

I've repeated this more than once. My point is, if you're going to say a bottleneck exists in a specific situation, with a specific CPU and GPU, you need evidence to back it up - with those specific components.

Try to understand the difference between saying:

"Bottlenecks don't exist at all", and

"I want to see proof of a bottleneck in a specific situation, and not merely take someones word for it."
Edited by Choggs396 - 5/24/08 at 9:58am
    
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post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
First of all, don't use ad hominem, please. I've "worked with" plenty of systems, but that means NOTHING in regards to asking for proof of other's claims of certain CPU/GPU "bottlenecks".

And the difference I was clearly referring to (in your situation) was the 9FPS difference you were getting. (289 to 298). That is a merely a ~3 percent improvement from overclocking your CPU from 2.66GHz to 3.6GHz

But I think you're confusing something here. I never said "bottlenecks don't exist". I know they exist. So trying to prove to me that bottlenecks actually happen is redundant.

I've repeated this more than once. My point is, if you're going to say a bottleneck exists in a specific situation, with a specific CPU and GPU, you need evidence to back it up - with those specific components.

Try to understand the difference between saying:

"Bottlenecks don't exist at all", and

"I want to see proof of a bottleneck in a specific situation, and not merely take someones word for it."
Then i prove my case, bottleneck exists, and its pointless to prove it. since i dont know what the hell kinda proof do you want.
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post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacized View Post
Then i prove my case, bottleneck exists, and its pointless to prove it. since i dont know what the hell kinda proof do you want.
I never once said "bottlenecks don't exist". I never argued against the fact they actually happen, or asked someone to prove they fact they actually exist.

Here is what concerns me.

This is what I actually said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
Do you have any proof of these "bottlenecks" you speak of? I mean, specifically with an E2000 series and 9600GT?

Everyone seems so quick to spout off "bottleneck!" when given combinations of CPU's and GPU's without actually knowing if there will be a problem. Or this: "just overclock it to (insert random number here) GHz", without any proof of an overclock to that specific frequency is really going to change anything.

So, now according to you, the 9600GT will be 'bottlenecked' with an E2xxx @ 1.6 or 1.8GHz - but not at all @ 2.6-3.0GHz. How exactly do you know this? Where is the proof? And what is your exact definition of 'bottleneck'?
... and you replied with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacized View Post
I don't agree with what you've said earlier..
What, exactly, do you not agree with then? The idea of asking for proof for a specific situation?
Edited by Choggs396 - 5/25/08 at 10:01am
    
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post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
I never once said "bottlenecks don't exist". I never argued against the fact they actually happen, or asked someone to prove they fact they actually exist.

Here is what concerns me.

This is what I actually said...



... and you replied with this:



What, exactly, do you not agree with then? The idea of asking for proof for a specific situation?
The only possible proof is if that guy show the before and after result of an overclocked E2k series.
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post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacized View Post
The only possible proof is if that guy show the before and after result of an overclocked E2k series.
Um, that's exactly what I was saying. In order to know there will be a bottleneck between two specific components, you'll have to test (or have someone else test) those two specific components. You're saying you don't agree with that?
Edited by Choggs396 - 5/26/08 at 7:19am
    
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post #26 of 34
Of course bottlenecks exists! My old E6300+8800GT = 6000
3dMark'06! E8400+8800GT =>11000 score! Also bigger cache improve gaming performance!

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...er,1709-8.html

Anyway anything below 2.6Ghz on the Core2Duo line will bottleneck the 9600GT! I'm not even speak about AMD because even phenom sucks at games! E8x00 kick its quad-ass ASAP on OC! LOL!
    
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post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by philips14c View Post
Of course bottlenecks exists! My old E6300+8800GT = 6000
3dMark'06! E8400+8800GT =>11000 score! Also bigger cache improve gaming performance!

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...er,1709-8.html
Yes, of course bottlenecks exist. But if you were only getting 6000 points in 3DMark06 with an E6300/8800GT combo - then there was probably something wrong with your system other than 'bottlenecks'. That score is just inconsistent with that level of hardware. People with much poorer hardware score more than that. Check out this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philips14c View Post
Anyway anything below 2.6Ghz on the Core2Duo line will bottleneck the 9600GT!
ALL Core 2 Duo CPU's below exactly 2.6GHz will 'bottleneck' a 9600GT? ... Don't expect anyone to just take your word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philips14c View Post
I'm not even speak about AMD because even phenom sucks at games! E8x00 kick its quad-ass ASAP on OC! LOL!
Fanboyism will get you nowhere.

Just because Phenom's don't usually perform as well as C2D/C2Q CPU's in games, doesn't mean they "suck". That's much too simplistic and biased.

Hardware Canucks, [H] Enthusiast, Anandtech
Edited by Choggs396 - 5/26/08 at 12:08pm
    
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post #28 of 34
If you get the E2180 which is 2.0GHz(basic mistake but the E2*** line is not restricted to 1.6GHz or 1.8GHz) and a 9600GT you probably won't really have to worry about a bottleneck.

Somewhere in every system there is a bottleneck in one way or another, it is minimizing the effect it has on the system that matters.

I would oc though to around 2.6GHz or 3.0GHz anyway but that is because it gives you an overall system boost, from playing games to encoding dvd or decoding music files or what have you.

But from what I have read and my own experience the E2*** and a 9600GT would be a good combo especially on a 17" crt, your max res is what 1280x1024 more than likely. You may have a slight bottleneck at that low res but not much if any imo. Let me bold that imo
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post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7racer View Post
If you get the E2180 which is 2.0GHz(basic mistake but the E2*** line is not restricted to 1.6GHz or 1.8GHz) and a 9600GT you probably won't really have to worry about a bottleneck.

Somewhere in every system there is a bottleneck in one way or another, it is minimizing the effect it has on the system that matters.

I would oc though to around 2.6GHz or 3.0GHz anyway but that is because it gives you an overall system boost, from playing games to encoding dvd or decoding music files or what have you.

But from what I have read and my own experience the E2*** and a 9600GT would be a good combo especially on a 17" crt, your max res is what 1280x1024 more than likely. You may have a slight bottleneck at that low res but not much if any imo. Let me bold that imo
I agree. Thank you for the rational, objective input. I appreciate it - as I'm sure others do. Intelligent responses like this can actually help people.
    
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post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
Um, that's exactly what I was saying. In order to know there will be a bottleneck between two specific components, you'll have to test (or have someone else test) those two specific components. You're saying you don't agree with that?
no, i said i didn't agree with you saying bottleneck does not exist
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