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[c&v] MGS IV has 90 minute cutscenes!!!! - Page 8

post #71 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
Uh, they'd probably take less space encoded in H264 than they would as textures and stuff...
No....the textures are already there. It's like you watching your friend play a mission, except the characters are going on scripts.
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post #72 of 79
Could you explain that to me in a little more detail please Dillard?

I understand it won't take up as much space because it doesn't have to store the cut scenes as a whole.

But it would still have to store everything else, from character movement to sound and all instructions for the cut scene. How would one 90 minute piece take up so little space regardless of textures? Especially when they are using uncompressed sound.

And also, won't there be parts in the cut scenes that you *may* not visit in-game. Which would mean those have to be stored and pre-rendered? Maybe i am looking at it wrong. Just need a bit of a clarification how this real time rendering differs from pre-rendering. It seems to me that all information and instructions for real time render would still have to be stored

Anyways, i have no objections to 90 minute cut scenes as long as they are entertaining and descriptive.
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post #73 of 79
They won't be using uncompressed sound.

The cut scenes are rendered in real time. The best example of this, that I can think of, is Halo 3. Halo 3 savegames are simply saves of what happens (player moves left, shoots, etc..), not video recordings. The files are only a couple of megabytes.

Storing a series of instructions uses very little space in comparison to storing thousands of frames of video.

A video is literally a series of images, displayed fast after each other. Each frame takes up an amount of space.

With a cut scene rendered in real-time, they literally only need some numbers and instructions to make the characters do what they want, and it's done. Textures are re-used throughout the game, each individual thing does not have a new texture.

As to places that are not in the game, they still make the map, you just never play in it. It's just there for the cut scene.

Overall, it'll take drastically less space. It's similar to storing an audio file of a program synthesizing speech, as opposed to storing the text, and putting it into a synthesizer. The audio file will be a megabyte or so, the text document will be a hundred or so kilobytes.

Another example would be flat-packed furniture. A pre-rendered cut scene is like a desk that is delivered assembled. Ready to go, but takes up a lot of space. Rendering cutscenes is like assembling flat-packed furniture. You just have the parts and the instructions on how to make it, and it takes up a lot less space.

And as to sound, it's not synthesised, but audio files are not as large as video files. OGG Vorbis audio is under 1MB a minute for music (which is more than speech would be), while 720p H264 encoded video is more like 12MB/minute. It's the video that really matters.
Edited by lattyware - 5/24/08 at 12:53pm
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post #74 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
They won't be using uncompressed sound.

The cut scenes are pre-rendered. The best example of this, that I can think of, is Halo 3. Halo 3 savegames are simply saves of what happens (player moves left, shoots, etc..), not video recordings. The files are only a couple of megabytes.

Storing a series of instructions uses very little space in comparison to storing thousands of frames of video.

A video is literally a series of images, displayed fast after each other. Each frame takes up an amount of space.

With a cut scene rendered in real-time, they literally only need some numbers and instructions to make the characters do what they want, and it's done. Textures are re-used throughout the game, each individual thing does not have a new texture.

As to places that are not in the game, they still make the map, you just never play in it. It's just there for the cut scene.

Overall, it'll take drastically less space. It's similar to storing an audio file of a program synthesizing speech, as opposed to storing the text, and putting it into a synthesizer. The audio file will be a megabyte or so, the text document will be a hundred or so kilobytes.
I think your confused. Pre-rendered is, its already been rendered and saved as a video file. Which is not the same as your Halo example.

The sound files will still be very large, since you can't just save some instructions for audio, but the rest will be rendered real-time to save on space and since the newer gen systems have enough power to produce beautiful CG movies in real-time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
Could you explain that to me in a little more detail please Dillard?

I understand it won't take up as much space because it doesn't have to store the cut scenes as a whole.

But it would still have to store everything else, from character movement to sound and all instructions for the cut scene. How would one 90 minute piece take up so little space regardless of textures? Especially when they are using uncompressed sound.

And also, won't there be parts in the cut scenes that you *may* not visit in-game. Which would mean those have to be stored and pre-rendered? Maybe i am looking at it wrong. Just need a bit of a clarification how this real time rendering differs from pre-rendering. It seems to me that all information and instructions for real time render would still have to be stored

Anyways, i have no objections to 90 minute cut scenes as long as they are entertaining and descriptive.
Well, the textures are already there no matter what, since they are needed for gameplay, same with the enviroments etc. So if its rendered in real-time, all that needs to be saved is the audio, and just a few commands about how the characters move. The movement is just a script of co-ordinates so it is relatively small.

And even if its a environment not visited in-game. A few textures and some co-ordinate geometry is still much less data then 90 minutes @ 30 or 60 fps.
Edited by pheoxs - 5/24/08 at 12:43pm
post #75 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
I think your confused. Pre-rendered is, its already been rendered and saved as a video file. Which is not the same as your Halo example.

The sound files will still be very large, since you can't just save some instructions for audio, but the rest will be rendered real-time to save on space and since the newer gen systems have enough power to produce beautiful CG movies in real-time.



Well, the textures are already there no matter what, since they are needed for gameplay, same with the enviroments etc. So if its rendered in real-time, all that needs to be saved is the audio, and just a few commands about how the characters move. The movement is just a script of co-ordinates so it is relatively small.

And even if its a environment not visited in-game. A few textures and some co-ordinate geometry is still much less data then 90 minutes @ 30 or 60 fps.
Pre-rendered video take up space because it's an entire video....like a crew, actors, director, and set all going somewhere. Where realtime rendered video is just the crew, and they are using what sets are already there.
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post #76 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
I think your confused. Pre-rendered is, its already been rendered and saved as a video file. Which is not the same as your Halo example.

The sound files will still be very large, since you can't just save some instructions for audio, but the rest will be rendered real-time to save on space and since the newer gen systems have enough power to produce beautiful CG movies in real-time.



Well, the textures are already there no matter what, since they are needed for gameplay, same with the enviroments etc. So if its rendered in real-time, all that needs to be saved is the audio, and just a few commands about how the characters move. The movement is just a script of co-ordinates so it is relatively small.

And even if its a environment not visited in-game. A few textures and some co-ordinate geometry is still much less data then 90 minutes @ 30 or 60 fps.
Yeah, fixed, just the wrong word.
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post #77 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
Yeah, fixed, just the wrong word.
I kinda figured that, just didn't want others to get confused is all.

I'm kinda iffy whether the 90 minute cutscenes will be good or bad. Although I believe this is exagerated, more likely 30 minute cut scenes. And so long as there is a save point like:

Warning: Insanely long cut scene ahead, would you like to save.

So that if you don't have the time you can just save, come back later on and then watch the scene.
post #78 of 79
Basically - for the slow people at there (or the lazy) who dont take the time to read the long passages above....

Pre-Rendered (or FMVs if you must) scenes - take up BIG space
Ingame rendered scenes - take up LITTLE space

And majority of games today are ingame rendered. The last games with pre-rendered scenes all throughout the game was RE4 and FFXII. I dont believe Ive played any game recently with no ingame rendered scenes
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post #79 of 79
If only movies had the L1 stuff
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