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The Way To Have 4GB RAM On 32-bit OS - Page 5

post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chozart View Post
Last link:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...AE/pae_os.mspx

All the way down on the bottom:

The table basically states that Windows XP 32-bit and PAE allows for the Operating System to access 4GB of RAM. Since multiple users already indicated that the part of that 4GB RAM is already used by the system, there isn't even 4GB left for the OS.

Thus, yes, the OS recognizes 4GB. Nice. Good to know. then, the OS recognizes that a good chunk of that 4GB is already used by other stuff (see several of the previous posts). Thus, the OS reports the 4GB it recognizes, minus the already used up memory, which equals ~3.25 - 3.5 GB, depending on hardware and such.
Chozart wins. You can't change the laws of computing, you can only make ineffective workarounds.
I don't see why going to a 64-bit OS is such a problem anyhow, I don't know of anyone who is displeased with Vista x64, but lives the 32-bit version. I know Xp had issues in x64 version, but that's life I guess.
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post #42 of 52
Thread Starter 
Are you saw a screen from magazine where computer show 4gb ram and it has 32-bit OS.
When i wrote this thread i know it's not faster than 3,25gb. But OS show 4gb.
Ted it is big problem change windows to vista64, because i give big money for my windows xp. If you give me money for new vista which is crap. Ok i change.
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post #43 of 52
Regardless, XP is outdated, and an upgrade to Vista is due. 4GB is the standard right now, and 8GB will be the standard soon. Get a 64-bit OS, whether XP or Vista.

And that looks like a pretty sensational magazine to me. I can photoshop too .... I think enough of us here have provided evidence to the contrary.

Now, you don't *need* to run 4GB. But, if you're spending the money to run 4GB, why not spend the money for a new OS??? (otherwise, stick with 2GB, since EVEN if 32-bit Windows works ok with 4GB, applications are STILL limited to 2GB!!! The fact that 32-bit Windows recognized whatever amount of RAM you image doesn't overrule the fact that applications in such an OS are limited to 2GB.)
    
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post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chozart View Post
Regardless, XP is outdated, and an upgrade to Vista is due. 4GB is the standard right now, and 8GB will be the standard soon. Get a 64-bit OS, whether XP or Vista.

And that looks like a pretty sensational magazine to me. I can photoshop too .... I think enough of us here have provided evidence to the contrary.

Now, you don't *need* to run 4GB. But, if you're spending the money to run 4GB, why not spend the money for a new OS??? (otherwise, stick with 2GB, since EVEN if 32-bit Windows works ok with 4GB, applications are STILL limited to 2GB!!! The fact that 32-bit Windows recognized whatever amount of RAM you image doesn't overrule the fact that applications in such an OS are limited to 2GB.)

Point, set, match!

Look on the bright side... vista64 rocks man!
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post #45 of 52
Chozart, you own link shows that Windows 2K and XP RTM/SP1/SP1a are capable of 36-bit addressing, and can thus recognize, and use, the full 4GiB of memory they support.

Look at the differences in wording on the table.

XP SP2/3 supports 4GiB of addresses. All other OSes that can enable PAE support much more.

The fact that Microsoft put a limiter on the lower cost versions of windows does not mean, or imply, that they are limited to a lower address space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted View Post
Chozart wins. You can't change the laws of computing, you can only make ineffective workarounds.
I don't see why going to a 64-bit OS is such a problem anyhow, I don't know of anyone who is displeased with Vista x64, but lives the 32-bit version. I know Xp had issues in x64 version, but that's life I guess.
There is nothing violating any so called "laws of computing" by having 36-bit address space in a 32-bit OS.

Also, the PAE workaround was far from ineffective. It allowed certain 32-bit versions of Windows to get at 4GiB or more (up to 120GiB in some cases), long before 64-bit versions would have been practical.

Yes, there is still the 2GiB limit per thread. So what? Many systems would have been running multiple memory intensive programs.

PAE was not ideal, but it was very useful in certain scenarios.
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post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardzik View Post
If you give me money for new vista which is crap. Ok i change.
Lol! Ever used Vista 64bit?

No?

How do you rate it as crap then, hmm?

Forget what windows shows... forget the screenshots...

2^32 HAS ALWAYS EQUALLED 4294967296

This is a pointless discussion if the brick-wall won't listen.

To the OP: If you want to ustilise 4gb memory, then the ONLY WAY is to run a 64bit OS.

Period.

(Make sure it is Vista64 not XP64)
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post #47 of 52
I don't know if this was posted, but a 32 bit os is compatible with 4gb of ram. The problem is that it also includes video ram.
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post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardzik View Post
Yes, beacuse he has SP2. It's must be SP1a. I read that on SP2 to show full 4gb RAM you can try turn on kernel ntkrnlpa.exe, beacuse WinXP has 2 kernel first hasn't PAE second has PAE. You must use /kernel=ntkrnlpa.exe, adding it to the end line in file boot.ini.

I find definition of what is PAE.

* /PAE
Now that we know where the 4GBytes limit comes from (32-bit procs -> 2^32 = 4G) we also understand that the OS kernel itself will not be able to see beyond that either. Something needed to change at the processors in order to be able to address beyond the 4GBytes. The Physical Address Extension (PAE) is an extension provided by intel (the 6th feature, or the bit 6 = 1 in the feature flags of the processor) to enable 32-bit processors to support more than 4GBytes of RAM. Looking at that in a very simple way, it makes the processors be able to address up to 64GBytes through providing a 36-bit physical addressing mode. So, with 36 bits available for physical addressing, the process is able to use 2^36, or 64 billion addresses, instead of the original 4 billion.

The OS kernel also needs to be aware of this since it will need to change its address translation scheme (PAE Kernel will introduce a third level - PDPE - in the address translation) to proper handle the memory beyond the 4GB. The /PAE option at the boot.ini will make the PAE kernel (ntkrnlpa.exe for single proc machines or ntkrnlpamp.exe for multiproc machines - SMP) to be loaded, instead of the regular one (ntoskrnl.exe).
I just tried it with the /kernel=ntkrnlpa.exe, it still only recognize 3.25GB of ram only. I guess 4GB of ram and 32bit Windows are just not meant to be.
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post #49 of 52
XP SP1 can support more than 4GB via PAE. However, MS wisely removed PAE with SP2. The reasons:
1) ALL drivers must be PAE-aware. Otherwise, they will be writing to the wrong area of memory and corrupting your data.
2) PAE cause performance issues. Your system has to use a translation table to figure out where the remapped addresses are.

In addition, SP2 and SP3 contain a whole bunch of updates. Some of these updated are REQUIRED for your system to operate with more recent hardware.

If you really need more than 3.5GB... get a 64-bit OS. The OP is right but did not include the various reason why it is not recommended for 99.99999% of users.

Read: http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm
Quote:
I should add a note about the /3GB, /4GT and /PAE Windows boot.ini switches, too, because they often come up when people are talking about 4Gb-plus Windows PCs.

They are all useless to you. You do not want them.

/3GB and /4GT are config settings for different versions of Windows that tell the operating system to change the partitioning of the 4Gb 32-bit address space so that applications can use 3Gb and the OS kernel only 1Gb, as opposed to the standard 2Gb-each arrangement. They don't help at all with the 3Gb barrier, and most applications don't even notice them, so desktop users lose kernel memory space (and system performance) for no actual gain at all.

The /PAE boot.ini switch, on NT-descended Windows flavours, activates the Physical Address Extension mode that's existed in every PC CPU since the Pentium Pro. That mode cranks the address space up to 64 gigabytes (two to the power of 36), and the computer can then give a 4Gb addressing block within that space - or even more, with extra tricks - to each of several applications.

PAE's no good to the everyday 3Gb-problem-afflicted user, though, for two reasons.

First, it presents 64-bit addresses to drivers, and thus causes exactly the same compatibility problems as a proper 64-bit operating system, except worse, because now you need PAE-aware drivers for 32-bit Windows, instead of just plain 64-bit drivers for a 64-bit OS. From a normal user's point of view, PAE gives you the incompatibility of a 64-bit operating system when you're still running a 32-bit OS.

For this reason, Microsoft changed the behaviour of the /PAE option in almost all versions of WinXP as of Service Pack 2. They fixed the endless driver problems by, essentially, making /PAE in XP not do anything. All versions of WinXP except for the x64 Edition now have a hard 4Gb addressing limit, no matter what hardware you use them on and what configuration you choose.

This isn't a big problem, of course, since XP is not meant to be a server operating system. But it's still mystifying to people who try the /PAE flag and can't figure out why it doesn't work.

Oh, and just in case you for some reason still wanted to try PAE: It eats CPU time, too.

Edited by DuckieHo - 5/25/08 at 2:04pm
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post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post
I just tried it with the /kernel=ntkrnlpa.exe, it still only recognize 3.25GB of ram only. I guess 4GB of ram and 32bit Windows are just not meant to be.
Right, because its not physically possible. The best result this method could give is that XP would show your ram as 4gb, but it would still only be able to use the 3.25 or so that it originally gave you. IMHO, this is really stupid, as it doesn't actually increase your ram, but instead just gets XP to give you a meaningless value. This equates to getting XP to tell you your 4600+ runs at 4ghz. Sure it looks better, but it doesn't mean jack.
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