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Radiater confusion!

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Hello All You water Gurus
I'm finally going to take the plunge, thanks to some great prices/Items in FS.
The only component I am missing is the Rad.

Now I'm not looking for advice on the ultimate macdaddy best of the best rad, as for right now I'm only going to be having a cpu loop; and internally in a CM690 so it needs to be thin!

My question really pertains to the different cheaper rads and their performance!; specifically the HWLabs Black Ice Series : and the 240 size!

(I think I have them in order of increasing performance! According to the limited stats-
which never seem to provide the same info from one rad to the next!-
- So Most do not have any actual cooling info)

Can You guys just do a confirm on these! :
I grouped them by what seemed to be the most Logical order -lacking cooling performance stats and consistent fin density info ; I went simply with rad thickness.


BIce Pro II (133x277x25) 1155Kcal (Base-Line Model?!?) (Actually lists cooling stats )

BIce GT Stealth (133x277x29.6)
One site says "Achieves Black Ice® Xtreme II Performance", another; "20% performance increase over BIPII"
BIce GT Stealth X-Flow Same (133x277x29.6) OK, I know that one is different; It's only single pass!
Still lists as the same 20% increase over BIPII (I'm guessing the advantage is that it's less restrictive?!)

BIce Xtreme II (133x273x45) Doesn't list any stats relating it to BIPII or BI GT Stealth or anything really! (discontinued maybe?)


BIce GTX (133x277x54) Listed as 45% more heat exchange capacity than the Black Ice Xtreme (Do they mean 45% more than the Extreme II??)
BIce GT Stealth GTX (133x277x54) Also listed as 45% more heat exchange capacity than the Black Ice Xtreme (Do they Also mean 45% more than the Extreme II??)
And if it's the same dimensions; What makes it Stealth?
And Finally:
BIce Xtreme GTX (133x277x54) Same 45% more heat exchange capacity than the Black Ice® Xtreme (Do they still mean 45% more than the Extreme II??)

Are those last three really just three different names for the exact same rad? or are the GTX and GTX Stealth the same and the GTX Extreme different in some way that I've Missed?

Just confuzzled about all these different nomenclatures!

Thanks Guys, Sorry for the long post
Cheers
for the Troops
[Edit} I'm eagerly waiting for any answers, but, will be off& on; Going over to NASA TV to watch the Mars Phoenix landing BRB!
Edited by SpcCdr - 5/25/08 at 1:45pm
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post #2 of 12
Yeah, everyone lists it differently, but you have 4 basic types for the HWlabs series

Economy
BIP
BIX

Enthusiast
GTS
GTX

With that said performance between the economy and enthusiats models is not a 1:1 on the cost difference. Some tests have shown the BIP to do better than the GTS until really high speed fans.

At most you'll see 20-30% performance differences but possibly 100% or more cost differences.


The BIX and GTX are designed for medium to high speed fans and the BIP and GTS are designed for low-medium speed fans although that's not a hard and fast.

Then there is the normal and X-flow types, but I wouldn't worry about that too much. Two pass usualy is more efficient but higher restriction, but even that doesn't hold true because the GTS and GTX use thinner fins which makes them generally more restrictive.

I would recommend getting whatever you can afford and try to match the fan type to the density of the radiator BIX/GTX for more high speed stuff, and the others for low/mediums.

In the end it's probably much more important how much heat your trying to dissiapate and ensure you have good enough fans to meet the performance level you're after.
    
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post #3 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
Yeah, everyone lists it differently, but you have 4 basic types for the HWlabs series

Economy
BIP
BIX

Enthusiast
GTS
GTX

With that said performance between the economy and enthusiats models is not a 1:1 on the cost difference. Some tests have shown the BIP to do better than the GTS until really high speed fans.

At most you'll see 20-30% performance differences but possibly 100% or more cost differences.


The BIX and GTX are designed for medium to high speed fans and the BIP and GTS are designed for low-medium speed fans although that's not a hard and fast.

Then there is the normal and X-flow types, but I wouldn't worry about that too much. Two pass usualy is more efficient but higher restriction, but even that doesn't hold true because the GTS and GTX use thinner fins which makes them generally more restrictive.

I would recommend getting whatever you can afford and try to match the fan type to the density of the radiator BIX/GTX for more high speed stuff, and the others for low/mediums.

In the end it's probably much more important how much heat your trying to dissiapate and ensure you have good enough fans to meet the performance level you're after.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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post #4 of 12
Just to add in to what martin said, the GTS is a pretty restrictive radiator from what I hear. (ask ira-k)

If you're wanting to stay in the budget level rads, I recommend the swifty rads over anything else for the excellent price/performance ratio.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Wow, a triumverate of W/C gurus
Now, heres a little more detail:
I'll be runnung a E8500 cpu only loop on a Rampage
(not too much OC-for now- don't need it -look what I'm upgrading from )

So not too much heat output to tame.)
I already have
Apogee GT Lapped block
D5 vario pump -1/2 primochill tubing
And will probably get a swifty microres.

I want to mount the rad internally up-top in a Cm690 case;
(The swifty will fit according to some reputable? forum posts- and won't fit according to other more reputable posters here on OCN)
Waiting to hear confirmation from ericeod- I know he did the top-rad internal on a cm690 and seem to remember he said it would not fit).

The fans will be 140 mm 73 CFM Aerocools with (120 mm adapters- used as shrouds) in pull config. (just because I already have them)
Other Fans:
140mm input at bottom, 120 in at front (another 120 in "5.25 bay mod") OCZ XTC RAmcooler,120 rear and of course the two 140s uptop on the rad.

So, with the thickness constraints in mind, and these further details;
It's pretty much down to:
BI PII or BI GT Stealth?
Would you guys concur?
Which do you think is more suited for my needs?
Cheers
Thanks

or any other recommendations?
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post #6 of 12
I recommend the swifty rads over the black ice ones because they perform better.. (unless you're talking about the GTX, which is better. The GTS is also better, but is pretty restrictive.)

You can try to fit the swiftech mcr220 in your case, and if it doesn't fit, you can always use a swifty radbox to mount it onto your cases 120mm exhaust port.
post #7 of 12
I have the CM690 as well, you could fit a 240 rad no problem, you may not have the spacers needed for the fans though. I'm going to mount mine on top for now, with the top portion with the USB and audio ports off. Let the system run for a while make sure it works well, then I'm going to do some surgery on the top and get some new screen material and make a top that is shaped similar to this _|-|_ so it looks enclosed. The Swifthek radiator will fit. I ll' llok for the photo with one and post a link so you can see.

Here you go. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=6520
    
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post #8 of 12
MCR220 fits in the top of the 690 but you have to offset it to the right.I could only get 3 screws in mine.So i had to rig up some zip ties to help keep the side without screws from drupping.Or get this and you wont have any problems mounting your rad up top

http://www.aquastealth.com/index.asp...PROD&ProdID=84
Edited by mothow - 5/25/08 at 4:59pm
    
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post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tufelhunden View Post
I have the CM690 as well, you could fit a 240 rad no problem, you may not have the spacers needed for the fans though. I'm going to mount mine on top for now, with the top portion with the USB and audio ports off. Let the system run for a while make sure it works well, then I'm going to do some surgery on the top and get some new screen material and make a top that is shaped similar to this _|-|_ so it looks enclosed. The Swifthek radiator will fit. I ll' llok for the photo with one and post a link so you can see.

Here you go. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=6520
Thanks for the link, but, I want to have the rad and loop entirely internal, with the fans between the case and the mesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothow View Post
MCR220 fits in the top of the 690 but you have to offset it to the right.I could only get 3 screws in mine.So i had to rig up some zip ties to help keep the side without screws from drupping
Are you talking about offsetting it to clear the MoBo?
Do you have any pictures?

Tnb=Gir, yep, I agree the swifty seems to be recommended as performing a little better, do you think I really need it for the E8500 with the apogee, D5 and 74CFM fans?
I'm just planning on this as a Temp. (parden the pun) situation.
When I get around to really OC'ing it I plan on swapping the whole shebang out to my RocketFish and buying a 360 PA and panaflos etc.
I just don't have the funds "earmarked" right now to buy all of the modding parts to do the RocketFish the way I want it. (Window, Al faux floor, RaptorX "nest" etc.; nevermind a $140 rad and another $80 for fans and a radgrill)

Cheers for all your responses guys!
Thanks
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post #10 of 12
Thie link was just so you could see the resovoir did indeed fit. Sorry should have said that.
Edited by Tufelhunden - 5/25/08 at 6:08pm
    
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