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[Energy Breakthrough] Company finds natural solution that turns plants into petroleum - Page 4

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravin View Post
It has EVERYTHING to do with plascics and PVC. Where do you think the fuel comes from to get the heat needed to polymerize oil?
There are many heat sources. I did not denied that methane is a heat source. I said it has nothing to do with the production of plastics. Your logic is indirect so doesn't count. Methane != petroleum, full stop.
Edited by metala - 5/26/08 at 2:04pm
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post #32 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post
There are many heat sources. I did not denied that methane is a heat source. I said it has nothing to do with the production of plastics. Your logic is indirect so doesn't count. Methane != petroleum, full stop.
Actually Methane+ Biomass + heat = petroleum, as pig farmers have discovered.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4732398/

Quote:
Zhang predicted that one day a reactor the size of a home furnace could process the manure generated by 2,000 hogs at a cost of about $10 per barrel.

Big oil refineries are unlikely to purchase crude oil made from converted manure, Zhang said, because they aren’t set up to refine it. But the oil could be used to fuel smaller electric or heating plants, or to make plastics, ink or asphalt, he said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4732398/

The article is dated April. 13, 2004, so Mr. Bell and his bacteria/biomass combo could very well produce "crude" oil if they set up for it. It stands to reason that this produced "crude" would be of a higher grade than the stuff pumped out of the ground.
Edited by Jarhead - 5/26/08 at 2:09pm
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
Actually Methane+ Biomass + heat = petroleum, as pig farmers have discovered.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4732398/



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4732398/

The article is dated April. 13, 2004, so Mr. Bell and his bacteria/biomass combo could very well produce "crude" oil if they set up for it. It stands to reason that this produced "crude" would be of a higher grade than the stuff pumped out of the ground.
Well, this is one of the few moments that I have to say that I was wrong.

Never thought about the biomass. It could be, but I still don't believe it.
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post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillykid View Post
I'm all for global warming cause I don't want to be stuck in another ice age as it has been forecasted to be around the next century or so. So if global warming can keep that from happening while i'm still alive I say YAY! for global warming.
Bad blanket statment. Global warming may actually cause the next ice age due to changes in the oceanic thermalsaline currents from increased ice melting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post
There are many heat sources. I did not denied that methane is a heat source. I said it has nothing to do with the production of plastics. Your logic is indirect so doesn't count. Methane != petroleum, full stop.
My logic is not indirect. Go to any plastics manufacturing facility, or fertilizers for that matter, and you will find that the vast majority are fired by natural gas reactors, it's just that plain and simple. Sure there are many sources of heat, methane just happens to be the most cost effective and easiest to implement.

Can you make plastic without natural gas?....yes. Can it be done cheaply on a mass scale?....no.
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post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by metala View Post
I don't think methane can be compared to the oil.

It can be used as a fuel, but nothing to do with the plastics and PVC.



Safe??? Believe me, they are not. Shuttles are using LH and LO, and they explode very often.
It seems that electric cars are more efficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCZedd View Post
Yeah we do, they have all the things petrol cars have, they are just as fast and responsive. The problem is with them is that it takes a very large tank of water (for the hydrogen) to go only a few miles compared to petrol cars which has a better energy to dimension ratio.
Wow do you have no clue about hydrogen. A hydrogen powered car is safer than a petrol driven car. When a vessel of hydrogen is breached it will jet straight up into the air, if ignited it will burn straight up. A petrol vehicle will explode, a hydrogen one will burn straight up from the breach. Also a petrol fire will reach much higher temperatures than that of hydrogen burning.

Oh and metala a hydrogen powered car does NOT use liquid oxygen and hydrogen. It is also NOT a combustion reaction and DOES NOT explode. A hydrogen powerd car is more efficient than an electric one. Hydrogen is used to produce electricity rather than batteries to supply it. Please actually read the relevant scientific papers before making such statements.

And OCZedd why do you think a hydrogen powered car needs a large tank of water? The reaction in a PEMFC produces water as a product. Hydrogen plus air gives water.

The main reasons for not already having all cars run on hydrogen are;

Compressed hydrogen tanks take up alot of space.
Metal Hydride stores are heavy although they store more hydrogen per unit volume over compressed they are alot heavier.
Cyrogenic storage is not suitable to be implemented on a car sized platform.
Carbonacious materials are not developed enough to store a reasonable quanity of hydrogen.
Also problems in setting up a suitable network for delievery of hydrogen to the vehicles.

Hydrogen powered vehicles are much safer than petrol ones, it is simple the mis-enformed that believe otherwise and go by the sterotypical views on hydrogen.

Another classic example of utter stupidity of the mis-enformed was greenpeace protesting against the delvelopment of fusion power. They claimed it was extremely dangerous and produced high volumes of radioactive material to the same level of a nuclear power plant. Not only does fusion power produce less radioactive material than a typical HOSPITAL, if the fusion vessal was to be breached it would not explode or create a nuclear DOOM scenero as they suggest. The presence of any impurities in the fusion reaction causes its temperature and energy to drop to the such the reaction will stop.

Anyway back on topic. Actually learn something about hydrogen powered cars before bringing forth your own baseless opionion on the subject.
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post #36 of 52
We dont need this we need coldfusion! lol
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post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by h3xw1z4rd View Post
We dont need this we need coldfusion! lol
It was a nice dream when it was first thought of. Proved to be impossible for all we know anyway.

Fusion is a reality and the first demonstration fusion reactor will be operational in 2016 (ie first plasma). Iter is already under construction and is based on current experimental reactor JET. JET as already achieved in producing 70% of the power that is needed to heat the plasma, while ITER will produce over 10 times the power of which is needed to heat it.

After ITER is succesful the first fusion reactors to enter commercial service will be in around 2030. With the fuel sources being abundant, Deuterium supplies will last for millions of years and lithium supplies for at least a 1000 years.
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post #38 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikozu View Post
Hydrogen powered vehicles are much safer than petrol ones, it is simple the mis-enformed that believe otherwise and go by the sterotypical views on hydrogen.
Totally see the truth of that....


Oh come on, somebody had to

The reality I believe is that fuel choice will be the real key to vehicle sales in the coming decades. Electric cars have been around for a hundred years(Baker, anyone?), now we have diesel, bidiesel, petrol, ethanol, and hydrogen. The people will decide what they want - the market is large enough for all of them assuming that we don't allow a corporate consortium to form and force standardization as happened in the early part of the twentieth century with Standar OIL, General Motors, Ford, Texaco, and a few others. As long as no monopoly is allowed to form we'll be alright.
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
Totally see the truth of that....


Oh come on, somebody had to
The thing about that is people actually survived that crash. If that was some sort of floating jet fuel (that'd be interesting) you can bet no one would have walked away from it. Furthermore, didnt Mythbusters do an experiment to recreate the accident and conclude that it was the coating/paint of the fabric (laced with thermite) that caused most of the problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Wikipedia
Despite the violent fire, most of the crew and passengers survived. Of the 36 passengers and 61 crew, 13 passengers and 22 crew died. Also killed was one member of the ground crew, Navy Linesman Allen Hagaman. The two dogs on board the airship also died. Most deaths were not caused directly by the fire but were from jumping from the burning airship. Those passengers who rode the airship on its descent to the ground survived. Some deaths of crew members occurred because they wanted to save people on board the airship.

Edited by Daegameth - 5/26/08 at 7:22pm
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post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskelsey View Post
So it's crazy to think that taking all the carbon that took 100's of millions of years to lock up in the ground and release it into the atmosphere and dramatically change the balance of the atmospheric makeup would be a problem.I am so gullible!
LOL. Quoted for common sense.
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