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post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
Such as? I don't recall any examples off hand.
Crysis is pretty mean to ATI cards o_o (Because of it being optimized for Nvidia and stuff)


I don't know of any game that's only compatible with one brand though
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post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
Actually, I will since I have an 8-series card at the moment. My whole point was complaining that Nvidia develops CUDA, but still can't get it right and add DX10.1 support.

Besides, I find it hard to believe that game developers would alienate a huge portion of their potential customers by making their game only compatible with one GPU manufacturer's cards.
10.1 isn't something they can software implement, it has to do with the silicon in many ways and they're going to have to re-engineer aspects of their chips to be able to do it.

PhysX will run on CPU when no hardware acceleration is present, albeit, not as well, especially when doing cloth and particle physics. So there is no alienation. ATI can program this using Close To Metal, which should have a performance advantage over CUDA (see other threads for why). Games are going to support it. ATi will too now that HavokFX is dead and Nvidia is giving it out. http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/60220...o_amd_ati.html

What I find is weird is that your PC is so hotroded and tweaked for more speed, less temp, and higher FPS; but you won't add a card that gives you more FPS and actual abilities. The physics processing done is not small potatoes... it's not something the CPU can handle well, and not something that can get by on a hundredth the power of your GPU; so you're possibly looking at double digit FPS loss. I admit, gameplay will be better, but I like having a dedicated chip. Since both PS3 and X360 use PhysX for physics, expect faster game ports now that it's being fully enabled on PC. GOW2 GOW2 GOW2..

Rob
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post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by sLowEnd View Post
Crysis is pretty mean to ATI cards o_o (Because of it being optimized for Nvidia and stuff)


I don't know of any game that's only compatible with one brand though
That's not an example of alienating an entire brand of GPUs, because all of the game features will run on ATI cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobRedbeard View Post
10.1 isn't something they can software implement, it has to do with the silicon in many ways and they're going to have to re-engineer aspects of their chips to be able to do it.

PhysX will run on CPU when no hardware acceleration is present, albeit, not as well, especially when doing cloth and particle physics. So there is no alienation. ATI can program this using Close To Metal, which should have a performance advantage over CUDA (see other threads for why). Games are going to support it. ATi will too now that HavokFX is dead and Nvidia is giving it out. http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/60220...o_amd_ati.html

What I find is weird is that your PC is so hotroded and tweaked for more speed, less temp, and higher FPS; but you won't add a card that gives you more FPS and actual abilities. The physics processing done is not small potatoes... it's not something the CPU can handle well, and not something that can get by on a hundredth the power of your GPU; so you're possibly looking at double digit FPS loss. I admit, gameplay will be better, but I like having a dedicated chip. Since both PS3 and X360 use PhysX for physics, expect faster game ports now that it's being fully enabled on PC. GOW2 GOW2 GOW2..

Rob
You have a good point, but nevertheless if it is a feature that only Nvidia supports then my point still stands.
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post #34 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post
There are very little games that use it now but i dont think games will do anytoime soon. Just look at how quad cpus and dual gpus are getting treated.
Yeah, well that's because not everyone has a dual and/or quad core CPUs. Nvidia graphics solutions, on the other hand, are owned by most gamers.
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post #35 of 43
Maybe when hybrid sli comes out, they'll allow you to dedicate the weaker card to physics processing or just with normal sli, allow one card to do graphics, while the other one does physics and graphics.
    
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post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
That's not an example of alienating an entire brand of GPUs, because all of the game features will run on ATI cards.

You have a good point, but nevertheless if it is a feature that only Nvidia supports then my point still stands.
Not really. Look at this way. If Nvidia can pull off great physics on a ton of games that already support PhysX, plus any future titles that want to use some awe inspiring physics, then Nvidia is the way to go. We should be improving on the phyics and graphics fronts, but I see much larger gains to be made with regards to sheer entertainment factor on the physics front. And this is the direction that we'll soon be seeing games go.

If things keep going the way they are going, and ATI doesn't develop a physics solution, then most gamers will have Nvidia cards in the future. What exaclty do you think happened when we made the transition from 2D to 3D. Developers said, "Woh! 3D kick's 2D in the balls. We're making games 3D now." It took a few years but, as a result of developers alienating certain hardware features, everyone eventually had to have 3D hardware support. Well, people didn't so much have to have it, as they wanted to have it. The same thing is going to happen here if Nvidia turns out to be better than ATI on both the physics and graphics fronts.

What MS needs to do is implement some sort of physics standard, sort of how DirectX is the graphics standard.
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post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porthios View Post
If things keep going the way they are going, and ATI doesn't develop a physics solution, then most gamers will have Nvidia cards in the future.
They showed off GPU based HavokFX on their cards a while back. Now that its dead, every platform is using PhysX (PS3, Xbox360, Wii, PC) and all but one of those platforms are completely built using ATI hardware... AND.. since Nvidia is giving them, and others, full license to support PhysX on their cards... I would expect them to integrate it on the PC platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porthios View Post
Well, people didn't so much have to have it, as they wanted to have it.
Oh yes we did indeed. Those were the days... We called it "Voodoo" and dual card Scan Line Interleave (SLI) setups that could do 10M triangles per second were what the lads dreamed of finding beneath their Christmas trees...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porthios View Post
What MS needs to do is implement some sort of physics standard, sort of how DirectX is the graphics standard.
I loosely understand this to be part of the preliminary DX11 specification.

Cheers,
Rob
Edited by RobRedbeard - 5/28/08 at 9:27pm
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post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
How do you allocate the memory space? Memory thrashing? Buffering? How about prioritization? Deadlocking? Load balancing?
I've been using nCloth in my Maya viewport since they put it out in 8.5, and its pretty quick (disturbingly quick with the Quadro & a Quad).

The power is definitely there, and we're talking about filesizes in the GB's... Games are nowhere near as dense as the meshes that are used in film
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post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porthios View Post
Not really. Look at this way. If Nvidia can pull off great physics on a ton of games that already support PhysX, plus any future titles that want to use some awe inspiring physics, then Nvidia is the way to go. We should be improving on the phyics and graphics fronts, but I see much larger gains to be made with regards to sheer entertainment factor on the physics front. And this is the direction that we'll soon be seeing games go.

If things keep going the way they are going, and ATI doesn't develop a physics solution, then most gamers will have Nvidia cards in the future. What exaclty do you think happened when we made the transition from 2D to 3D. Developers said, "Woh! 3D kick's 2D in the balls. We're making games 3D now." It took a few years but, as a result of developers alienating certain hardware features, everyone eventually had to have 3D hardware support. Well, people didn't so much have to have it, as they wanted to have it. The same thing is going to happen here if Nvidia turns out to be better than ATI on both the physics and graphics fronts.

What MS needs to do is implement some sort of physics standard, sort of how DirectX is the graphics standard.
Your view seems to be based upon the assumption that people already have the games. There are less than half a dozen titles that support PhysX and are even remotely popular, so support for past games doesn't come into play - and a lot of those games don't require a PhysX card to get the full benefits of the game itself. We are talking here about physics being a major part of the game (such as with sports), so a developer alienating an entire group of GPU owners is a big deal. If PhysX support is opened up to all other manufacturers and ATI chooses not to add support for it then your argument would be correct, but this article makes no mention of Nvidia's intentions in that regard so my point still stands.

As far as the physics standard goes, I don't see it being able to be handled the same as graphics in terms of developing and utilizing an API.
Edited by stargate125645 - 5/29/08 at 6:47am
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post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
If PhysX support is opened up to all other manufacturers and ATI chooses not to add support for it then your argument would be correct, but this article makes no mention of Nvidia's intentions in that regard so my point still stands.
That's because many of us have already heard about that:

http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/60220...-amd--ati.html

BTW - PhysX is an API with an entire software SDK.

Rob
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