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Q9450 OC nightmare? - Page 3

post #21 of 118
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it's a problem with the 45nm (probablt goes for 45 nightmare or so ) Quad processor ... it can't take too much voltage. With a dual, OC'ing is a lot different. I'm kind of disappointed but as some here succeed in OC'ing the Q9450 to 3.9 GHz, I still think I'm the one screwing up, not my hardware. I'm not exactly the OC specialist
    
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post #22 of 118
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ighlight=Q9450

^Some good info there...

From what I've read stability much beyond 400FSB requires massive amounts of Voltage NB, PLL and VTT(aka FSB termination).
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post #23 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by baretsu View Post
it's a problem with the 45nm (probablt goes for 45 nightmare or so ) Quad processor ... it can't take too much voltage. With a dual, OC'ing is a lot different. I'm kind of disappointed but as some here succeed in OC'ing the Q9450 to 3.9 GHz, I still think I'm the one screwing up, not my hardware. I'm not exactly the OC specialist
I could almost promise you it's not the cpu but the board itself.


take this for instance.
my settings right now
cpu voltage 1.3125 (1.256 real)
cpu pll voltage 1.6
FSB termination voltage 1.3v
north bridge termination voltage is at 1.55v
NB GTL voltage x.61 I beleive
CPU GTL voltage x.67 I believe. might have this and NB GTL switched.
FSB at 450mhz.
transaction booster is at +1 (adjust northbridge strap settings from my understanding.


most of these play a huge impace on how well you can overclock in general but with a quad they are even more important. CPU pll voltage and NB GTL seem to be the most important from what I have noticed. I don't believe you have those on your board which can help limit things a bit. granted I could be wrong but I honestly believe you could do better with a different board.
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post #24 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7speed View Post
robred your also using a MUCH different CPU.
he is using a 45nm cpu while your using a 65nm cpu.
just from my own experience there I can hit 3.6ghz on my e6600 at 1.5v on my x3350 I can hit that same 3.6ghz at 1.256v
Thanks, but honestly, I do know this. While, I was not expecting him to say his motherboard only gives him 1.375v and 1.5v steps with nothing in between (I would have returned it for a different board at this point), it's not uncommon for people to test/run vcores on the E8400 up to 1.6v. I know he has a quad, but I also know he has a water block. My point was to set the voltage on the CPU, at least temporarily, to a point where you absolutely know the CPU vcore is not the culprit. For a dual 45nm, 1.375v is not enough to make that claim in the 425-470 FSB range. The quads can't escape the fact that they are just two duals. However, the quads can't take as much voltage as the duals (which makes perfect sense when you think they have twice the heat generation surface in the same package).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7speed View Post
I've even seen some that hit around 550 or so with a dual core but then again same thing only hit 450-470 with a quad.
This means your boards voltage regulators are inadequate. Just in terms of shear wattage the board has to supply to the NB and CPU those speeds make sense. I would expect measured vcores on failed boots above that point to show drooping in the CPU voltage and draw down on the FSB voltage.

If your FSB is at 1.5v already, and your cpu is <1.4 you should be able to achieve at least 425MHz FSB. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe it's a power issue. CPU GTL is something you'll need to adjust, especially with a quad, but there is no right answer. I'd say put your voltages at 1.375 and 1.5v (fsb). Then experiment with GTL, it's different for each CPU.
This might help:
Adjusting [Advanced] Gunning Transceiver Logic (A/GTL+) Voltage Levels
for Increased Front Side Bus (FSB) Signaling Margins and Overclocking


Rob
Edited by RobRedbeard - 6/1/08 at 7:12pm
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post #25 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobRedbeard View Post
Thanks, but honestly, I do know this. While, I was not expecting him to say his motherboard only gives him 1.375v and 1.5v steps with nothing in between (I would have returned it for a different board at this point), it's not uncommon for people to test/run vcores on the E8400 up to 1.6v. I know he has a quad, but I also know he has a water block. My point was to set the voltage on the CPU, at least temporarily, to a point where you absolutely know the CPU vcore is not the culprit. For a dual 45nm, 1.375v is not enough to make that claim in the 425-470 FSB range. The quads can't escape the fact that they are just two duals. However, the quads can't take as much voltage as the duals (which makes perfect sense when you think they have twice the heat generation surface in the same package).


This means your boards voltage regulators are inadequate. Just in terms of shear wattage the board has to supply to the NB and CPU those speeds make sense. I would expect measured vcores on failed boots above that point to show drooping in the CPU voltage and draw down on the FSB voltage.

If your FSB is at 1.5v already, and your cpu is <1.4 you should be able to achieve at least 425MHz FSB. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe it's a power issue. CPU GTL is something you'll need to adjust, especially with a quad, but there is no right answer. I'd say put your voltages at 1.375 and 1.5v (fsb). Then experiment with GTL, it's different for each CPU.
This might help:
Adjusting [Advanced] Gunning Transceiver Logic (A/GTL+) Voltage Levels
for Increased Front Side Bus (FSB) Signaling Margins and Overclocking


Rob
At the very least great information from you guys (not that I understand it all but I'm trying)! Unfortunatly, returning the board (bought it on the net in Germany) isn't really an option.

Now about theat GTL: this definitely makes sence but I don't have it in my BIOS, not under that name anyway ... could this be the CPU reference voltage in my BIOS?

Just for the record, my BIOS parameters are:

CPU Voltage (obvious what it is but what's a 'safe' limit' for dual or quad and what's the biggest effect of upping it, besides heat and reduced lifetime?)
Memory Voltage (obvious what this does as well, but limits and effects?)
FSB Terminator Voltage (not clear at all, I suppose this is the VTT but what does it do?)
NB Voltage (clear, just what are 'safe' limits or normally used values when OC'ing)
SB Voltage (clear, just what are 'safe' limits or normally used values when OC'ing)
CPU Reference Voltage (not clear at all)
Memory Reference Voltage (not clear at all)
    
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post #26 of 118
Get a different board.

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=369776

At some point I will hit 4GHz damn it lol.
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post #27 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm666 View Post
Get a different board.

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=369776

At some point I will hit 4GHz damn it lol.
Nice OC! Can you please post all your voltage and other BIOS settings? That way, at least we learn something
    
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post #28 of 118
Thanks!

vCore 1.39v
NB 1.7v
FSB 1.5v
RAM 1.86v

(If you are still running your DDR3 at less than 1.8v, you should probably beef it up since it is 1333 RAM running at 1360+)

EDIT: Just a heads up, this chip will do 3.8GHz with 1.325-1.350 vCore, 1.55NB, and 1.45 FSB. It seems to be anything really over 3.9GHz that it asks for so much more. 3.9 can be run at 1.362vCore, 1.475 FSB and 1.6 NB.
Edited by rpm666 - 6/2/08 at 6:48am
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post #29 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm666 View Post
Thanks!

vCore 1.39v
NB 1.7v
FSB 1.5v
RAM 1.86v

(If you are still running your DDR3 at less than 1.8v, you should probably beef it up since it is 1333 RAM running at 1360+)

EDIT: Just a heads up, this chip will do 3.8GHz with 1.325-1.350 vCore, 1.55NB, and 1.45 FSB. It seems to be anything really over 3.9GHz that it asks for so much more. 3.9 can be run at 1.362vCore, 1.475 FSB and 1.6 NB.
Basically, my RAM should only be running at 13.. something last time I checked (playing with the dividers) ...

So you just put the FSB to 450 (to hit 3.6 GHz that is), my vCore at 1.375v (it works in steps and the next step is 1.5v), my RAM at 1.89v (again, one of the steps), my FSB Terminator voltage to 1.5v and my NB at 1.71v (once again, predefined values here ...) and that should do it?

Don't I have to change the CPU or Memory Reference Voltage (whatever that may be) or any other parameters?

Man, at least one lesson learned here: NEVER buy a board because it looks great and has a very nice WC system ... actually ... never buy certain brands if they're not up to the tweaking ...

I will try these parameters tonight and hope not to get into too much trouble!
    
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post #30 of 118
I wouldn't put 1.5v through the processor. You should be able to hit 3.8-3.9 with 1.37 or LESS. NB and FSB look good. CPU reference voltage for my board adds 300ma to the vCore - I have mine disabled because instead of 1.3vCore it would add that and make it 1.6vCore - WAY too much.I have only gone over 1.4vCore when at 3.95 trying to force the board to 500+FSB. I haven't read too much of the other posts but make sure you have watchdog disabled as well as any other "Features" of the motherboard. Enhanced power slope should be enabled though.
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