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Strange things happening with phenom 9500 - need help!

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Okay, so I am a total n00b when it comes to overclocking. Add to that the fact that I have poor cooling (side panel missing from my case, and only 2 extra fans besides the stock 9500 heatsink/fan combo), and I have recently learned that supposedly the 9500 quad core is a minefield of problems for overclockers; well I figure I was screwed from the start. but here is my dilemma, with which I hoe you can help!

I have a 9500 quad core phenom processor in an MSI k9a2 CF board, with 2Gb of OCZ RAM and a PNY 8800GT graphics card with 512Mb RAM and a 500W CoolerMaster extreme power. I believe everything else is extraneous, but if you need more info, let me know.

The power supply is newest; after exactly a month of everything running fine (30 days precisely from when I first booted it up; this entire rig is roughly 9 weeks old now) the whole thing died on me. At first I thought it was a simple BIOS battery, for 3 days prior to the death of the system I was getting a low battery warning with each boot, and losing all BIOS info. A little troubleshooting led me to believe the power supply was dead; so I upgraded from a generic 450W to the cooler master 500W. I don't think anything was harmed at that time, but it is possible. (Oh, and I did leave in the brand new BIOS battery.)

So today I decided to start my first true OC experience. With little research I jumped into the BIOS and played with settings. I saw a built-in overclocking setting named 'DOT' which allowed me to select from a list of percentages; I started at 5% and it crashed, pulled back to 1% and it crashed; removed it altogether and it worked again. Time for just a bit more research I decided, and I did some more reading (but only a couple hours worth, still not enough I am sure!)

I had then read enough online to make sure I disabled spread spectrum and set everything to manual, not auto. I put everything on its lowest possible setting, rebooted, and saw the machine drop from 2.2 to 2.0 Ghz... and run a hell of a lot slower than that 200 Mhz drop should account for.

I started slowly tweaking only the CPU frequency, leaving everything else alone. I got it to 225Mhz with a x11 multiplier and booted into windows to see a beautiful 2.48Ghz shown on My Computer properties.

I then pulled it back down to 209 / x11 (2.30 Ghz) and started toying with other settings. Pretty much anything and everything led to crashing, whether it was HT Ratio or RAM setting. So, I again set everything to minimums and only ramped up the CPU frequency to 220 x11 (2.42 Ghz), a little lower than I had achieved before just to feel safe.

Knowing I had only stock cooling and a missing side panel, I decided to download some utilities to test the system temp and stability etc. I didn't want to have everything seem to run fine, and then end up melting a CPU a few days/weeks later.

And I ran across several MSI downloads, including a BIOS upgrade, from the 1.2 I was using to 1.6 - so I flashed the BIOS with no problem, and it seemed to be still running just fine. I upgraded a few on board drivers after that, and also ran into AMD Overdrive.

I downloaded and installed it, let it do the auto tests, and left to go read a book. Half an hour or so later I heard the machine reboot, but it was back to a stock 2.2 Ghz. I check AOD and it showed it had tested successfully up to 225 (same place I had gotten before). I clicked apply settings, and the whole machine froze. I left for 5 minutes thinking it may just need some time, then hard-rebooted it.

After a lot of playing with the AOD settings, and nothing seeming to work; always either crashing the machine, or seeming to work but then leaving the machine at 2.2 Ghz, I uninstalled AOD and went back to tweak the BIOS.

But the BIOS still show all the settings I had put in place before uninstalling AOD.

And the computer boots fine, with the properties on My Computer still displaying 2.2 Ghz, not the 2.42 I should have.

And nothing I change in the BIOS, including items that led to crashes and BIOS resets before, seem to effect the computer at all!

I re-installed AOD, set everything to its original settings, and restarted, but it still made no difference. I went into AOD's auto configure, and it still remembered the 2.25 setting it had tested before (I assume because I didn't clean files up after uninstalling it), and when I try to run a new test, it simply instantly says it is finished - leaving the last test results of 225!

So I have now again uninstalled AOD, but don't know where to go from here. I don't know if both the information in My Computer as well as the info in AOD which shows it running at baseline is accurate, or if somehow the BIOS has been disabled, or...?

Should I try to flash the BIOS again?

Any other advice?
Edited by karossii - 6/2/08 at 5:45pm
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
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My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
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post #2 of 12
So power off ur system. Take the power cable out of the power supply. Take out the battery and short the jumper to make a hard reset. Then start the computer again and see what happens.
Phenom 9850
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9850BE @ 3.0 Ghz ASUS M3A32 MVP DELUXE ASUS HD 3870 TOP 4 GB GSKIL DDR2 1000Mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
SEAGATE 250 GB (LG & SONY) Lightscribe Windows 7 Beta 7057 / Mandriva 2009.1 Spring 22" ASUS VW222 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 750W Modular Thermaltake Armor 
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Phenom 9850
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9850BE @ 3.0 Ghz ASUS M3A32 MVP DELUXE ASUS HD 3870 TOP 4 GB GSKIL DDR2 1000Mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
SEAGATE 250 GB (LG & SONY) Lightscribe Windows 7 Beta 7057 / Mandriva 2009.1 Spring 22" ASUS VW222 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 750W Modular Thermaltake Armor 
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post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
I actually tried flashing the BIOS again last night, with no success. I uninstalled AOD, deleted all the logs etc., reinstalled AOD, tried to auto-tune. Flashed the BIOS back to 1.2, tried it all over again... Nothing worked.

I did notice AOD would default to 500mhz/x11 - showing it in red, but that was always the target setting, the actual setting remained at 200/x11.

I had thought of pulling the CMOS battery and/or shorting the jumpers, guess I will give that a go and get back here with the results... but for now it seems as if nothing is working at all!
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
Okay, here's the latest weirdness...

I tried to pull the CMOS battery, waited a minute or two, placed it back in and restarted. Same problems.

I then moved the jumper over, left it for about 10 seconds, and then placed it back in its normal place. Still no go.

Finally, I swapped the jumper over, pulled the CMOS battery, and left for a couple hours. Came back, put everything back in order, and it seemed to be fine now.

I no longer have AOD on the system, before this last bit, I had uninstalled it, cleaned all remaining files, and even checked the registry and cleared out the two entries I found related to it.

So now I have a system back to default/normal. Or so it seems.

I reboot, go into BIOS, set up the system the way I like it (disable the nonexistant floppy drive, remove the graphics on boot up, enable boot sector protection, disable quick boot, rearrange the boot order properly, etc.) and reboot... again everything seems to be perfect thus far.

So now I go in, and start to tweak as I had before; slowly and carefully set everything from AUTO to the minimum setting, and tweak up only the CPU frequency. But this time I have a different problem.

When I did this, the computer dropped from 2.2Ghz down to 1.54Ghz. I pulled up CPUID (CPU-Z) and it read the same; 140 CPU frequency, x11.

So I think I somehow screwed up, reboot and get back in BIOS; and no - it is set for 210Mhz / x11. So I drop it down to 205Mhz, x11 - check everything else is still on minimal settings, and reboot. Again I get 1.54 (140/x11).

So now I set everything back to Auto, and put the CPU back to 200Mhz - and it boots up at 2.2Ghz just fine. I reboot yet again, leave everything on auto, and only change the CPU up to 210; I expect 2.32Ghz, but I am again down to 1.54...?

So now, if I touch anything at all, it drops to 1.54 - I can't even set it that low manually, 180 is the lowest it will let me set it. It doesn't matter what I set, or what I set it at, if I try to overclock anything; PCIe bus, RAM, etc., it remains at normal and the CPU is dropped to 1.54...!?!?!?

What can I do?

For now, I am just going with everything at stock settings, 2.2Ghz. But I would like to bump it up a little bit, even if only to 2.3 or 2.4Ghz.
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 12
when you say you are dropping all the setting to minimum, are you also dropping the vcore? Just incase you are, you shouldn't be.

also, i'm not sure about that motherboard but i think you have to disable the "tlb fix" / "eratta patch"/ "i don't know what it's called cause i'm on an am2 board"...etc

when you are overclocking your processor (raising the FSB) check your cpu-z ram speed in the memory tab, when you raise your fsb you also raise your ram speed (it's based on a ratio of your processor frequency EX: (2.2ghz "cpu/6" = 366.66mhz ram) the preset values in your bios (800/633/333/200) are just different ratios.

when you plan on overclocking, pick a lower speed for your ram so that it is taken out of the equation for sources of error
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 960 4.1ghz HT on Gigabyte X58A-UD7 ASUS 6970 DCII (975/1498 1.2V) 4x4GB G.skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M500 480GB + 2tb WD Passport Samsung 20x DVD-RW Corsair H100i Win10 x64 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 960 4.1ghz HT on Gigabyte X58A-UD7 ASUS 6970 DCII (975/1498 1.2V) 4x4GB G.skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M500 480GB + 2tb WD Passport Samsung 20x DVD-RW Corsair H100i Win10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell u2711 G15 (v2) corsair AX850 Fractal R5 
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G5 dota custom asus xonar essence stx 
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post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Actually, I was just posting on this as I saw you replied to this thread - my BIOS uses the 1:1, 1:1.33, 1:1.66, 1:2, and 1:2.33 method for RAM... which apparently is odd nowadays.

I did check the memory tab, and it gets dropped along with the CPU speed whenever I touch anything. I experimentally tried to set it as follows:

HT Multiplier: x4
CPU Frequency: 225
CPU Multiplier: x11
RAM Ratio: 1:2.33

and everything else was left on [AUTO]

And with that setup, which previously would have failed to POST (I know, I tried it before this weirdness started), it booted fine, and displays in CPU-Z as:

Core Speed: ~1540 MHz (it varies from 1539.8 to 1540.6)
Multiplier: x11.0
Bus Speed: 140.0 MHz
HT Link: 280.0 MHz

DRAM Frequency: 140.0 MHz
FSBRAM: 1:1
CAS#: 5.0
RAS to CAS: 5
RAS Precharge: 5
Cycle Time: 13
Bank Cycle Time: 19
Command Rate: 1T
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Here are my BIOS options, at least pertaining to overclocking;

Code:
Current CPU Clock: 2200 MHZ {cannot change – auto updates}
Current DDR Clock: 800 {cannot change – auto updates}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
D.O.T. Control: [Disabled] {automatic overclocking settings, measured in ‘%’ – no idea what it changes exactly if used}
AMD Cool’n’Quiet: [Disabled]
HT Ratio: Auto {5, ranges from 1-13 in whole numbers}
Adjust CPU FSB Frequency: [200] {can type in any whole number from 180 to 600}
Adjust CPU Ratio: [Auto] {x11, ranges from 4-11 in 0.5 increments}
Adjust CPU Ratio: [Auto] {this line is greyed out, cannot change}
Adjusted CPU Frequency: [2200] {cannot change – auto updates}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Advanced DRAM Configuration: [Press Enter] {looked at it once, way too much in there which is beyond me at this point}
FSB/Memory Ratio: [Auto] {1:2, can choose from 1:1, 1:1.33, 1:1.66, 1:2, 1:2.66}
Adjusted DDR Memory Frequency: [800] {cannot change – auto updates}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Adjust PCIE Frequency: [100] {can type in whole numbers, have not changed and do not know range}
Auto Disable DIMM/PCI Frequency: [Disabled]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
CPU Voltage: [Auto] {not sure what Auto defaults to, can select from 1.285, 1.322, 1.360, 1.397, 1.435, 1.472*, 1.510*, 1.547*}
Memory Voltage: [Auto] {not sure what Auto defaults to, range is from 1.80 to 2.90 in 0.05 increments}
NB Voltage: [Auto] {Auto is 1.10, cannot manually select that though; the manual range is from 1.15 to 1.40 in 0.05 increments}
Hyper Transport Voltage: [Auto] {Auto is 1.20, cannot manually select that though; the manual range is from 1.25 to 1.50 in 0.05 increments}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Spread Spectrum: [Disabled]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


Numbers marked with * are listed in red and disclaimed as unsafe to use

{Green is notes}
Now, when I say I set everything to minimum except CPU frequency, here are the settings I use;
Code:
Current CPU Clock: 2475 MHZ
Current DDR Clock: 495 MHz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
D.O.T. Control: [Disabled]
AMD Cool’n’Quiet: [Disabled]
HT Ratio: Auto {5, ranges from 1-13 in whole numbers}
Adjust CPU FSB Frequency: [225]
Adjust CPU Ratio: [x11]
Adjust CPU Ratio: [Auto]
Adjusted CPU Frequency: [2475]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Advanced DRAM Configuration: [Press Enter]
FSB/Memory Ratio: [1:1]
Adjusted DDR Memory Frequency: [495]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Adjust PCIE Frequency: [100]
Auto Disable DIMM/PCI Frequency: [Disabled]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
CPU Voltage: [1.285]
Memory Voltage: [1.80]
NB Voltage: [1.15]
Hyper Transport Voltage: [1.25]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Spread Spectrum: [Disabled]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


Blue is the one number I mess with.

Edited by karossii - 6/2/08 at 6:55pm
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by karossii View Post
FSB/Memory Ratio: [1:1]
I think in AMD systems you can not set FSB/Memory Ratio: [1:1].
Phenom 9850
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9850BE @ 3.0 Ghz ASUS M3A32 MVP DELUXE ASUS HD 3870 TOP 4 GB GSKIL DDR2 1000Mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
SEAGATE 250 GB (LG & SONY) Lightscribe Windows 7 Beta 7057 / Mandriva 2009.1 Spring 22" ASUS VW222 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 750W Modular Thermaltake Armor 
  hide details  
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Phenom 9850
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9850BE @ 3.0 Ghz ASUS M3A32 MVP DELUXE ASUS HD 3870 TOP 4 GB GSKIL DDR2 1000Mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
SEAGATE 250 GB (LG & SONY) Lightscribe Windows 7 Beta 7057 / Mandriva 2009.1 Spring 22" ASUS VW222 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 750W Modular Thermaltake Armor 
  hide details  
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post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_3025 View Post
I think in AMD systems you can not set FSB/Memory Ratio: [1:1].
Well, I can, because I did (and it ran fine that way prior to using AOD) - I suppose you probably mean that I should not, though. Why would it be a problem to set it at 1:1? Other than the obvious slowdown of the RAM, that is?
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9500 Quad Core MSI K9A2 CF PNY 8800 GT w/ 512MB 2x OCZ 1GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
3TB RAID 2x DVD RW Windows XP Pro SP3 HP w2408 24" widescreen 
PowerCase
Cooler Master 500W Used P.O.S. 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by karossii View Post
Well, I can, because I did (and it ran fine that way prior to using AOD) - I suppose you probably mean that I should not, though. Why would it be a problem to set it at 1:1? Other than the obvious slowdown of the RAM, that is?
Read this one out. It may help.
http://www.overclock.net/amd-memory/...explained.html
Phenom 9850
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9850BE @ 3.0 Ghz ASUS M3A32 MVP DELUXE ASUS HD 3870 TOP 4 GB GSKIL DDR2 1000Mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
SEAGATE 250 GB (LG & SONY) Lightscribe Windows 7 Beta 7057 / Mandriva 2009.1 Spring 22" ASUS VW222 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 750W Modular Thermaltake Armor 
  hide details  
Reply
Phenom 9850
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom 9850BE @ 3.0 Ghz ASUS M3A32 MVP DELUXE ASUS HD 3870 TOP 4 GB GSKIL DDR2 1000Mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
SEAGATE 250 GB (LG & SONY) Lightscribe Windows 7 Beta 7057 / Mandriva 2009.1 Spring 22" ASUS VW222 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 750W Modular Thermaltake Armor 
  hide details  
Reply
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