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CPU Temp Questions from a Beginner

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
*sorry that this is so long, but many thanks in advance to anyone willing to answer my questions!*

Hey all, hopefully these are not stupid questions but I'm new to PC building/overclocking/all of it in general and I was just hoping to get some clarification from the pros!

I just recently built my first computer (well, not my FIRST computer, but you know what I mean...).

Specs are as follow:

DFI Lanparty DK x38
Core 2 Duo e8400 3.0ghz Wolfdale
Gigabyte 8800gt Turbo Force
4GB DDR2 800 RAM
Antec EA500 500W PSU
250gb SATA 7200rpm HDD


So I got it all up and running and I was so proud of myself...Went to give it a quick benchmark and ran my first 3dmark06 on stock settings...got about 9500...huh!? Started to check around to see what was going wrong, and noticed according to my BIOS the CPU Core Temp was idling at 57C! This is way too hot right? At this point I went out and got myself a ZALMAN CNPS9700 to replace the stock heatsink. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118019)

After installing the new heatsink a few days later (much harder than I expected) I began my first overclock. Very simple business here, just increased the FSB to 400Mhz, clocking my processor at 3.6 and my RAM at 960. Then I started monitoring the temps again...

Now BIOS shows my CPU starting around 42C but the longer it is on it slowly rises up to around 48C at idle. Sorry I'm at work so don't have the ambient temps to provide, but my room is not any hotter than you would expect the average room to be...

Next I went and downloaded some software to monitor while OS is loaded up(Windows XP Pro SP3 32-bit). I am using Core Temp and also SpeedFan. Strangely, Core Temp shows me idling at 52C while SpeedFan is MUCH lower for Core 1 at 43C.

**SO MY QUESTION IS**

Which is right, my BIOS, SpeedFan, Core Temp? From what I've learned it could be that they are ALL inaccurate, but I just can't seem to get a definitive answer here. Either way, aren't these temps still much higher than I should expect my system to be hitting? Keep in mind these are at Idle. I used Prime95 to load my CPU and within an hour my system hit its cutoff temp of 65C.

My rig seems to have a heat issue I can't diagnose. I even took a room fan and stuck it up near my machine blowing all over the CPU area (Southbridge...?) but to no avail. I had heard some people saying this really helped their temps, but for me it seems to make no difference at all. I'm worried not only for the lackluster performance these heat issues will give me, but also for the shelf-life of my hard earned new gadgets. Besides, I was hoping this build would be easily overclockable, but with my temps the way they are I wouldn't even dare to play with my CPU voltage. Oh and yesterday I went back and reseated the heatsink, but the temp seems to be exactly the same.

I was hoping that someone here might have some advice for me as to how to keep this computer COOL. Is there possibly some sort of issue with this processor, or my setup in general, or maybe a common mistake that lots of new builders make? If you all have any ideas, please help me out! Unless your idea is go buy better cooling, because I mean I don't think I should be experiencing the heat that I am with the products I already have...

Ok if any of you actually read this whole post THANK YOU! I look forward to reading your responses and thanks a ton in advance for your replies,

*edit* BTW I did run another 3dmark06 with same settings after the OC and new heatsink, my score got up to about 13100 which I am quite satisfied with at this time. Obviously, the CPU score probably held me down a bit...DAMN that thing pushes your system hard.

Regards,
Matt
Edited by gandalf615 - 6/4/08 at 1:40pm
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post #2 of 17
Thread Starter 
Hmm perhaps I need to get home and post the ambient temps huh...?

After reading some other posts on this forum, I think I might have found a solution or two:

For one, my wiring is really messy and kind've just dangles all over the place. If I can find some wraps/clips maybe I could go and clean that stuff up and see if it helps.

Also, I'm not so sure anymore that I set up a very good airflow within my case. The aftermarket cooler was huge, and I had to face it blowing downwards (when the case is upright) to get it to fit.

It blows directly into my Northbridge heatsink. On that heatsink I jerryrigged a little 45mm, or some small size like that, fan from an old scrapped computer we have in our attic. It seems to blow pretty hard, and it is currently flowing downwards as well in the same direction as my Zalman. They blow down towards my video card, where I have a case fan set up that is supposed to be sucking the air out and blowing through to the outside of my case. Obviously I have a case fan blowing air out the back near the PSU, and I have one last fan on the side in that general area doing the same thing. I tried to set this up so that air flowed in a continuous direction and ended in places where it could be sucked out by the case fans.

Do you all think that setup sounds good? Maybe the heatsink blowing downwards is a bad idea, and it just unfortunately can't fit in my motherboard(Northbridge heatsink is way too close and gets in the way of facing it to the sides)? Then again, even with the side of the case off and a big room fan blowing in there I'm not really noticing a difference...

Maybe I should wait to ask new questions until people get a chance to read the first post...
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post #3 of 17
Most of us here have short attention spans
Longer than 3 or 4 lines and it becomes a blur, unless you're a girl, then we'll read anything no matter the length.

Anyway, what I got out of your epic post is an issue with your temps.

Use Realtemp for 45nm procs, I'd say speedfan is close.

And yes, airflow will help, the 9700 loves airflow.

Oh yeah..what did you use for thermal paste, how much did you apply?
Edited by grunion - 6/4/08 at 1:24pm
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post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion View Post
Most of us here have short attention spans
Longer than 3 or 4 lines and it becomes a blur, unless you're a girl, then we'll read anything no matter the length.

Anyway, what I got out of your epic post is an issue with your temps.

Use Realtemp for 45nm procs, I'd say speedfan is close.

And yes, airflow will help, the 9700 loves airflow.

Oh yeah..what did you use for thermal paste, how much did you apply?
Hah yeah I know it's long but I wanted to make sure I got all the relevant info in.

I used Arctic Silver 5 (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm) and I applied, like, a dab? A fingernail-sized circle in the center of the processor, if you have kind've small fingernails? Not really sure how to best describe it, I just followed the directions that came with the stuff.

I'm a little confused...would it be possible that my diodes are just screwy and my BIOS itself is wrong? I will try RealTemp when I get home...If Speedfan is accurate then that's great because it's much lower than what I get on Core Temp, but I have a feeling it is wrong since the BIOS and Core Temp are much closer to being the same.

Thanks for the reply!
Edited by gandalf615 - 6/4/08 at 1:36pm
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post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf615 View Post
Hah yeah I know it's long but I wanted to make sure I got all the relevant info in.

I used Arctic Silver 5 (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm) and I applied, like, a dab? A fingernail-sized circle in the center of the processor, if you have kind've small fingernails? Not really sure how to best describe it, I just followed the directions that came with the stuff.

I'm a little confused...would it be possible that my diodes are just screwy and my BIOS itself is wrong? I will try RealTemp when I get home...If Speedfan is accurate then that's great because it's much lower than what I get on Core Temp, but I have a feeling it is wrong since the BIOS and Core Temp are much closer to being the same.

Thanks for the reply!
Sounds like you may have applied too much, check this thread for an efficient application method.
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post #6 of 17
I did read your whole posts, but I'm pissed and high, so sorry if I missed it, but what vcore are you using? I found I was able to get far cooler results by taking manual control and under-volting as much as possible. Auto voltage might be higher than you need for stability. Possibly. Tiny reductions in voltage have a big impact on temperatures. More so than clock speeds IMO.

Certainly research which program (probably real temp) is able to give you the most accurate results, before getting cold feet

Disclaimer: I'm a noob at OCing. Most of the above is based on my trial and error, and from what I've learnt on here already. Not all of the above information is fact
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post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
Tiny reductions in voltage have a big impact on temperatures. More so than clock speeds IMO.
This is my experience. so i think its right as far as i know. but i'd love to be corrected...
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf615 View Post

**SO MY QUESTION IS**

Which is right, my BIOS, SpeedFan, Core Temp? From what I've learned it could be that they are ALL inaccurate, but I just can't seem to get a definitive answer here. Either way, aren't these temps still much higher than I should expect my system to be hitting? Keep in mind these are at Idle. I used Prime95 to load my CPU and within an hour my system hit its cutoff temp of 65C.

My rig seems to have a heat issue I can't diagnose. I even took a room fan and stuck it up near my machine blowing all over the CPU area (Southbridge...?) but to no avail. I had heard some people saying this really helped their temps, but for me it seems to make no difference at all. I'm worried not only for the lackluster performance these heat issues will give me, but also for the shelf-life of my hard earned new gadgets. Besides, I was hoping this build would be easily overclockable, but with my temps the way they are I wouldn't even dare to play with my CPU voltage. Oh and yesterday I went back and reseated the heatsink, but the temp seems to be exactly the same.

I was hoping that someone here might have some advice for me as to how to keep this computer COOL. Is there possibly some sort of issue with this processor, or my setup in general, or maybe a common mistake that lots of new builders make? If you all have any ideas, please help me out! Unless your idea is go buy better cooling, because I mean I don't think I should be experiencing the heat that I am with the products I already have...

Ok if any of you actually read this whole post THANK YOU! I look forward to reading your responses and thanks a ton in advance for your replies,

*edit* BTW I did run another 3dmark06 with same settings after the OC and new heatsink, my score got up to about 13100 which I am quite satisfied with at this time. Obviously, the CPU score probably held me down a bit...DAMN that thing pushes your system hard.

Regards,
Matt
Like Grunion said, use Realtemp...

Coretemp and other temp monitoring programs read the Tj max value for wolfdales as 105°C but that's actually 10°C too high. So check to see the Tj max value Coretemp uses if it's 105°C you can automatically deduct 10°C from your current temp readings. Something to note though, is that the 105°C Tj max value was borrowed from the 45nm mobile processor data sheet since Intel never officially specified in any desktop or server documentation. There is some debate whether Tj max is actually 95°C Tj or 105°C Tj, but for now most believe it's the higher value.

Still even if that is the case your temps are rather high... But as you mentioned that could be because of temperature inaccuracy due to a faulty thermal diode(If it is a faulty diode not much you do to fix it ). Symptoms of faulty diodes are as follows(from most common to least):

- The temps remain the same regardless of cooling or voltage until a set value is reached... An example of this would at stock voltage and speeds while idle a temp readout would be 52°C. Then bumping core voltage to say 1.36 and ocing to 4.0ghz would still yield an idle temp of 52°C. That temp won't change until under load it breaks beyond a certain threshold, let's say for comparison 58°C, then begins reading the correct temps thereafter.
- One core reads significantly different from the other; mating the surfaces perfectly does nothing to change the situation... Most like caused by one faulty diode and one working diode. Much less likely cause could be poor contact between the core -> solder -> IHS.
- A few diodes are always stuck and constantly read the same temps under idle, load, high voltage, low voltage ect...

I'd suggest using realtemp, if the temps are still outrageous then you could remove the heatsink reapply TIM and reseat it. If you're lucky you might have simply had poor contact between the HS base and IHS, which if corrected could improve temps greatly...

BTW, fill in your systems specs it will help in diagnosing your build/situation... Also get us a SS of both CPU-Z and coretemp(to est. VID) and please note your ambients.
Edited by MasterKromm - 6/4/08 at 3:43pm
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post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys, you were definitely right about Core Temp! As you can see from the screenshots below it is recording 10C higher than RealTemp or SpeedFan!

I didn't get the last screenshot, but at about 7 mins 2 secs, on test #5, Orthos said there was an "error" and stopped...not sure why, was it getting too hot? I never hit my system cutoff temp though so I don't know why it would just stop itself.

How long do you have to run on Load for it to be considered your Load temp anyway? I mean I only got to 7 mins or so and I think the temp would probably have continued to rise a bit more. Maybe I should try Prime95 again now and see what that does...?

These temps just seem too high and I can't seem to figure out what specifically is causing it. I suppose I could try reseating the heatsink again, but it really doesn't appear to be the problem since I was experiencing high temps with the stock Intel heatsink as well.

Sorry for all the questions and the long posts, but I really do appreciate the help guys!

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post #10 of 17
First off click User CP at the top of the page and then put in your system specs so anyone can glance quickly at what your working with.

Secondly unlink your RAM from your Processor in the bios. You want to overclock one at a time so you know which is giving you problems.

Wiring will definately affect your tempatures, so fix that asap, should be a quick and easy fix for a few degrees.

I agree it sounded like too much thermal paste. That might grab you as much as 10 more degrees when done correctly, depending on how much extra you used.

The Zalman isn't very popular for an overclocking heatsink and having it blowing downward is probably screwing with general airflow in your case as well. As a rule you want to blow cool air in the front and hot air out the back. With fans blowing cool from the bottom up and out the top as well if those are options in your case.
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