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[GT] House Passes PRO IP Act - Page 9

post #81 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396
If you are pirating something, you are stealing it. How much clearer do you want me to make it? I already provided you with the dictionary definitions on this post
Piracy is not stealing. This is now the third or fourth time I've had to repeat myself?
Quote:
A different means to the same end. Theft.
Piracy is not stealing.
Quote:
So you actually admit it is stealing, but you personally think it's not? Wow.
No. I admit that the people in power are of the opinion it is stealing. I am of the opinion that it is not.
Quote:
I don't think you understand that we can't just pick and choose which laws we do or don't obey depending on personal viewpoints. That's not how it works.
Really? This is news to me.
Quote:
And I suppose chop shops are legal then....
Umm... this just clearly highlights your lack of understanding surrounding the fact that piracy is not stealing. A chop shop steals cars, tangible objects, and then disassembles them to sell the parts. Again. A tangible object is stolen, and sold for profit. That IS stealing.
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post #82 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
Piracy is not stealing.
Care to explain why, other than you just think it's not? I've actually provided you with definitions. You've merely provided opinion. Fact > Your opinion.

If you go online and download a game illegally, that is piracy. You are stealing. It really amazes me that you won't admit to such a very simple concept.

Just keep rereading this post until you understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
No. I admit that the people in power are of the opinion it is stealing. I am of the opinion that it is not.
I hope you understand that the laws > your opinion as well.

Just keep in mind, the opinion "I don't think it's stealing" won't hold up as a defense in court.

Quote:
I don't think you understand that we can't just pick and choose which laws we do or don't obey depending on personal viewpoints. That's not how it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
Really? This is news to me.
I'd ask if you were joking, but up to this point that's exactly how you've portrayed your view on the issue. Sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
Umm... this just clearly highlights your lack of understanding surrounding the fact that piracy is not stealing. A chop shop steals cars, tangible objects, and then disassembles them to sell the parts. Again. A tangible object is stolen, and sold for profit. That IS stealing.
I think what you're failing to understand is your opinion does not trump facts and laws. Do you seriously not understand that just because you can't physically touch something, doesn't mean it cannot be stolen?
Edited by Choggs396 - 6/12/08 at 9:29am
    
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post #83 of 136
Thread Starter 
If your definition of stealing is tied only to physical items your definition is wrong in a modern context. Patents, software, music, video, all have value and are not necessarily tied to a physical object. If you steal 1000 music CD's from a store, you are not stealing 1000x the cost of a CD (a few cents a pop), you are stealing 1000x the cost of a music CD ($15-20). If you can't comprehend this I suggest you get your head out of you *** and join the rest of us in the computer age.

Every nation on Earth realizes and accepts this. Humanity as a whole accepts and understands this. The only place where stealing only applies to physical objects is in your own little head, which doesn't count for anything.
Edited by rabidgnome229 - 6/12/08 at 9:44am
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post #84 of 136
i wasnt going to reply to this thread in the beginning, as feel the topic has been raised to many time and should be laid to rest once and for good. i do however after reading the entire 9 pages of people bashing each other feel that we should be as one on the subject. Devision only leads to disaster as someone once said. now to the above post.

piracy can be considered as both stealing and not.

The original uploader of the file that is being shared would be the primary target for such an offense as they have personally read the CD/DVD in their machine and on to their physical storage device, whilst purposely avoiding all copyright protection to enable them to do so. These People/Groups are STEALING from the copyright owners

The downloaders of the uploaded files are NOT STEALING and are simply coping the uploaded fire on to their physical storage device. They have not stolen the product, but however instead are 'Handling stolen goods' which is a lesser offense, and can be dodged by telling the appropriate authorities where the copyrighted material came from.

i agree with choggs on the fact that we have to adhere to the rules set by society and/or local authorities however we can choose to live our lives if we want. If we want to do something illegal or against the rules i tend to go by the phrase ' It's only illegal if you get caught'

I again agree with choggs for the simple reason you can steal gases from a labs, however many cant be seen or physically touched. Therefore an object, i.e noun can be stolen weather or not it is a tangible object or not.

I personally pirate media, however i do so at my own risk and liability
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post #85 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biskitz View Post
I again agree with choggs for the simple reason you can steal gases from a labs, however many cant be seen or physically touched.
Gas is still a tangible object. It is physical matter, even if you can't see it.

Rabidgnome and choggs simply need to stop posting in this thread. They are not contributing any useful information and are apparently too narrow minded and naive to wrap their heads around the fact that piracy is not stealing.
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post #86 of 136
I have two points to make. The first – how is buying a CD and selling it not piracy or illegal? I just searched Ebay and found 259,993 people that are selling music CDs. They’re making money off of the backs of an artist or record label. People have been selling CDs for years - that must be illegal. Why doesn’t the RIAA go after those people? I’m sure they could get account information quickly, and sue quickly. What if one person bought one CD and sold it, and then that person sold it, and so on. One artist would sell one CD, yet 1,000 people have it. Why isn’t selling your old movies illegal? Why doesn’t the MPAA come down on people that sell movies they bought? That should be illegal – they’re making a profit off of a movie studio’s back. Can you tell me why selling a CD or a movie you bought isn’t illegal? The RIAA will sue you if you give your CD to a friend, yet do nothing if you sell the CD to your friend.

The second. How can I pay $7 to see a $100M movie, and pay $15 to hear a (could be lousy) album? How can I buy said $100M movie for the same price of an album? Does a music album cost $100M to make? It must be the artwork

To all the people saying “piracy is Satan†– you wouldn’t be saying that if we had to pay for all forms of entertainment, would you? If you had to pay for TV shows (each one), you’ll probably be the ones saying “Wow, I sure love having to pay for this TV show!!â€

Johnny: Mommy, I want to watch Power Rangers today. Can I?
Mommy: No, Johnny, you can’t because we can’t afford it.
Johnny: Why can’t we afford it?
Mommy: Well, this week’s episode is $15. We had to save the $15 today to watch the local news broadcast coming up at 6 – so we can see if the tornado will hit us. We want to be safe.
Johnny: Can’t we just look at the weather on the computer?
Mommy: We could, but our web surfing is a low priority. The page may not come up for the next few hours, since consumer web traffic has taken a lower priority.
Johnny: Why does it cost $15 to watch Power Rangers?
Mommy: Well, sweetie, the TV industry realized that people are no longer watching commercials – they just fast-forward through them. So, the TV industry saw music’s business model, and they went with that. They say they need the money.
Johnny: But, on a free episode of MTV Cribs, I saw a TV guy say he had 4 Bentleys. He didn’t look like he needed money. Mommy, what’s a Bentley?
Mommy: It’s a $350,000 car.
Johnny: But, if it costs that much and he has 4 of them, why does he need our $15? I just wanted to watch Power Rangers
    
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post #87 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by packardhell1 View Post
I have two points to make. The first – how is buying a CD and selling it not piracy or illegal?
It isn't illegal. It's illegal if you make a copy for yourself before selling it, which most people probably do.
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post #88 of 136
Threads like these show who the real a-holes are on the forums. To take someones opinion and part it out and say why you think its wrong is really stupid. It's opinion vs opinion and its a DAMN FORUM. Quit bickering and let everyone have their opinion.

Oh and I'll but my opinion out there, "pirating" is not stealing UNTIL you distribute that material on a hard copy or via sharing.
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post #89 of 136
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
Gas is still a tangible object. It is physical matter, even if you can't see it.

Rabidgnome and choggs simply need to stop posting in this thread. They are not contributing any useful information and are apparently too narrow minded and naive to wrap their heads around the fact that piracy is not stealing.
Yeah - I'm narrow minded because I think that stealing only applies to things I can touch. And I'm naive because I think that I can singlehandedly redefine stealing despite the fact that every nation on earth has laws that regard the theft of IP.

Oh wait...
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post #90 of 136
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