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[INQ] Modchips are Legal in UK - Page 4

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
That I agree with and understand, but there's two problems:

1. That's not what the article said the UK ruled on. Quote:



This is saying that the copyright infringement took place before the mod chip was used by the customer. I.e., either in the design and creation of the thing, or in selling it, or somewhere before it was ever actually used. The best I can figure is that they are trying to say that reverse engineering the copy protection in the first place is the copyright violation; and that's just wrong. It may be illegal (depending on where you are, it is here because of the DMCA); but breaking the DRM scheme is not the same as the act of acquiring copyrighted material without paying for it.

2. He did more than than just sell the mod chips, he installed them:



Once you add the mod chip into the console, the piracy questions begin. The questions being, of course, that in some cases (notably the original XBox) the mod chip enables a helluva lot more than game piracy (which is the reason mod chips are legal in Australia, as I understand it). However, if UK law said that adding a mod chip to a console was illegal (which I believe it did before this), then he was clearly caught with his pants down doing a naughty, naughty thing.
I totally agree with the rulling. Note I dont have a chipped console, nor do I pirate. All he is doing is effectivly allowing someone to pirate. He is not making them pirate, or providing them with pirated goods. Nor has he broken the copy protection on a game allowing it to be played on such a modded console. There is plenty of other software or hardware out there that allows various degrees of piracy and is perfectly fine to be sold/used. Personally I dont see this as any different. Nor do the courts.
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post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
I can't say that I understand that argument, unless there's more to it than was in the quote. The mod chip itself does nothing...it's just a bunch of circuitry. Bypassing the copy protection cannot take place until the chip is inserted into the console, the device that has the copy protection. This argument basically claims that the mod chip manufacturer is the pirate; not the person who bought, installed, and is playing pirated games with the mod chip.

Here's a concrete example of how this makes no sense: Back when I was in college, our old cable system (complete with a wired remote!) could easily be, and was widely, "pirated". By placing a little device called a high-pass filter (a $5 audio component readily available at any Radio Shack) between the cable line and the cable box, you could get pay-per-view absolutely free; the filter prevented communication back to the cable compnay that you were watching a pay-per-view movie, or something along those lines. The UKs ruling would imply that doing this is absolutely legal; that the piracy "already happened" when somebody designed the high-pass filter, or when the cable company designed a system that could be bypassed this way, or whatever. This is a strong parallel I think; and if presented with this case instead of the console mod-chip case, I find it very hard to believe that the UK would rule the same way.
Copying the data was the infringement. Not playing the data.
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post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
I can't say that I understand that argument, unless there's more to it than was in the quote. The mod chip itself does nothing...it's just a bunch of circuitry. Bypassing the copy protection cannot take place until the chip is inserted into the console, the device that has the copy protection. This argument basically claims that the mod chip manufacturer is the pirate; not the person who bought, installed, and is playing pirated games with the mod chip.

Here's a concrete example of how this makes no sense: Back when I was in college, our old cable system (complete with a wired remote!) could easily be, and was widely, "pirated". By placing a little device called a high-pass filter (a $5 audio component readily available at any Radio Shack) between the cable line and the cable box, you could get pay-per-view absolutely free; the filter prevented communication back to the cable compnay that you were watching a pay-per-view movie, or something along those lines. The UKs ruling would imply that doing this is absolutely legal; that the piracy "already happened" when somebody designed the high-pass filter, or when the cable company designed a system that could be bypassed this way, or whatever. This is a strong parallel I think; and if presented with this case instead of the console mod-chip case, I find it very hard to believe that the UK would rule the same way.
I think its the same concept. Hooking up your high-pass filter wasn't illegal. But turning the channel to pay-per-view was. I think this is the only just conclusion one could come to.
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post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
That's just the thing, just what did they get him on, voiding a warranty?
Lol yeah.

The thing is you will find forums EVERYWHERE that help you with Modchipping and how to do it and what they can do YADA YADA. The Modchip I have installed in My xbox is not all about playing the pirated games...its an option...I do not do it. Thus I am not breaking any laws.

I can do all kinds of fun stuff. I FTP stuff to my Xbox for data backup....I can change the Xbox logo colour lol...I can do crap loads of things. Its not illegal. Its just a modification to existing hardware.

Yes it allows you to break copyright laws....but thats optional to the END USER. The chip in the first instance does not break the law. Just voids your warranty. Plus MS shot themselves in the foot by leaving the Debugging points on the motherboard lol.

I am glad it has become more of a legal thing in the UK because to have it Illegal is like retarded.

You can disagree with me all you want but the fact of it is I am not doing ANY wrong as I am not pirating !.
post #35 of 52
Of course mod chips are 'legal'.

You bought the console, it's your property, now you can do whatever you want with it, solder in it, use it as a battering ram, what have you.

Just the idea that somehow Microsoft and/or Sony still own your console is ridiculous. What are you doing, renting the damn thing?

Copyright violations are the worst excuse the lawmakers have for draconian laws.
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post #36 of 52
copying the game is illegal.

Playing it is a subsequent irrelevant occurence.
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post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikozu View Post
I totally agree with the rulling. Note I dont have a chipped console, nor do I pirate. All he is doing is effectivly allowing someone to pirate. He is not making them pirate, or providing them with pirated goods. Nor has he broken the copy protection on a game allowing it to be played on such a modded console. There is plenty of other software or hardware out there that allows various degrees of piracy and is perfectly fine to be sold/used. Personally I dont see this as any different. Nor do the courts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post
Copying the data was the infringement. Not playing the data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I think its the same concept. Hooking up your high-pass filter wasn't illegal. But turning the channel to pay-per-view was. I think this is the only just conclusion one could come to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post
copying the game is illegal.

Playing it is a subsequent irrelevant occurence.
Guys...I agree with you on the point that installing a mod chip that enables other functionality of the hardware should not be illegal. I used to mod my consoles all the time for these very reasons. Not modding an Xbox was stupid, because XBMC was an awesome piece of software!

But everyone is ignoring the argument that the court ruled on, either because they didn't read the article or don't care to pay attention. The basis of the ruling was that the copyright infringment happened before the mod chip was installed. Please...do not bring up "the pirates are the ones copying the games" again, that is not what the court said. If infringement happend before the chip salesmen ever saw a chip, then it happened waaaaaaay before Random Loser Pirate every copied and played a game. So who exactly is the UK court saying is at fault here? Basically, just the handful of people who actually break the console protection schemes and subsequently design and create mod chips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowman View Post
Of course mod chips are 'legal'.

You bought the console, it's your property, now you can do whatever you want with it, solder in it, use it as a battering ram, what have you.

Just the idea that somehow Microsoft and/or Sony still own your console is ridiculous. What are you doing, renting the damn thing?

Copyright violations are the worst excuse the lawmakers have for draconian laws.
In the US, you're only half right. Go read the DMCA. You are prohinited from breaking copy protection mechanisms, period. And on game consoles, the copy protection mechanisms are mostly in the game console, not the disc. Bypassing that protection is a violation of US law.

Of course, this has not been put to the test in the courts. And I doubt if it ever will...the console manufacturers are doing well enough with FUD, so why risk losing the battle in court?
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post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Guys...I agree with you on the point that installing a mod chip that enables other functionality of the hardware should not be illegal. I used to mod my consoles all the time for these very reasons. Not modding an Xbox was stupid, because XBMC was an awesome piece of software!

But everyone is ignoring the argument that the court ruled on, either because they didn't read the article or don't care to pay attention. The basis of the ruling was that the copyright infringment happened before the mod chip was installed. Please...do not bring up "the pirates are the ones copying the games" again, that is not what the court said. If infringement happend before the chip salesmen ever saw a chip, then it happened waaaaaaay before Random Loser Pirate every copied and played a game. So who exactly is the UK court saying is at fault here? Basically, just the handful of people who actually break the console protection schemes and subsequently design and create mod chips!



In the US, you're only half right. Go read the DMCA. You are prohinited from breaking copy protection mechanisms, period. And on game consoles, the copy protection mechanisms are mostly in the game console, not the disc. Bypassing that protection is a violation of US law.

Of course, this has not been put to the test in the courts. And I doubt if it ever will...the console manufacturers are doing well enough with FUD, so why risk losing the battle in court?
DMCA violated other laws itself. So this is a grey area.
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post #39 of 52
As much as I hate our government's policies and all the damn tax, I love our civil law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TestECull View Post
@ guys not understanding British: What else do you expect? They drive on the wrong side of the road, so of course they're going to use language we have no f'n clue about...lol.
If you want a little insight into why we drive on the left hand side of the road in the UK you may want to Google for the General Highways Act of 1773, it all derives from that. As for the language there's no such thing as British it's simply English as this is the primary language of England, although forms of Celtic are spoken in parts of Scotland and Wales.
post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalSonata View Post
Although I don't entirely understand this ruling either, I do like it. I softmodded a friend's XBOX when his computer broke so he would have something to use the internet. I softmodded mine to use it as a DVD player. My brother's XBOX's Hard Drive died and I looked around for a mod chip so I would be able to replace the drive and he could play again, but I couldn't find any. There is a plethora of legal uses for mod chips and this is definitely a step in the right direction (maybe someday they will be legal in the US).
Actually, I believe that is illegal... Microsoft didn't include the rights to play DVDs with the Xbox because it costs them money for their player to do that. That's why they sell the remote to playback movies, you are not buying the remote so much as the ability to play DVDs.

I forget exactly who gets the royalties, but it's a group like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Consortium Everything using the DVD format has to pay a fee for the usage of it.
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