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post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
The price is also high because not a lot of people buy them. And I suppose there's support included for them....
i think thats the biggest thing right there. $800 more? not a chance. but still significantly more.
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post #22 of 36
workstation cards.
1. Better optimized driver and software support
2. Can handle much larger 3D rendering that standard desktop video cards CAN NOT
3. Softmodding a desktop card will make it function better to handle some 3D rendering/modeling but will NOT make it a workstation card.

Guys there is a reason game/movie companies use these workstation cards vs. desktops and it's not the price. It's the difference in performance. The sheer volume of work they can handle that desktop cards can not.
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post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
I keep hearing people make generic comments about workstation graphics cards being more "precise" and whatnot, but I've never seen anything to back it up. Just rumors IMO. I do believe the key is the drivers, and softmodding a card works just as well as paying the extra $800 for it.
No one has anything to back it up because there is nothing. The GPU is the same. The 3870 in my computer that thinks it's a FireGL v7700 because it's running the FireGL driver works as well as any real one.

Larger companies or organizations will still prefer the real card because of the support services. Softmod doesn't always work properly, and it's up to you to fix it any problems.
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post #24 of 36
And a GDDR5 version will be far better.
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post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianOdin View Post
workstation cards.
1. Better optimized driver and software support
2. Can handle much larger 3D rendering that standard desktop video cards CAN NOT
3. Softmodding a desktop card will make it function better to handle some 3D rendering/modeling but will NOT make it a workstation card.

Guys there is a reason game/movie companies use these workstation cards vs. desktops and it's not the price. It's the difference in performance. The sheer volume of work they can handle that desktop cards can not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seggybop View Post
No one has anything to back it up because there is nothing. The GPU is the same. The 3870 in my computer that thinks it's a FireGL v7700 because it's running the FireGL driver works as well as any real one.

Larger companies or organizations will still prefer the real card because of the support services. Softmod doesn't always work properly, and it's up to you to fix it any problems.
You guys are absolutely right, but these workstation cards are made and optimized to be put under heavy load for much of their lifetime without any room for instability or crashing. And from experience, desktop cards/drivers sometimes cant handle 100% load for more than a few hours without crashing.

Same reason xenons and opterons are more expensive than normal C2D/A64s.. the optys/xenons are a step above the rest
    
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post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamervivek View Post
+1,quadros used to be 2k-3k a few years back and it was always better to soft mod a gaming card.
Tesla 1070 released today, is basicly a GTX-280 with 4 GiByte Memory and different drivers.
comes for only 9999 US-$ ;o)
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post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgins View Post
You guys are absolutely right, but these workstation cards are made and optimized to be put under heavy load for much of their lifetime without any room for instability or crashing. And from experience, desktop cards/drivers sometimes cant handle 100% load for more than a few hours without crashing.

Same reason xenons and opterons are more expensive than normal C2D/A64s.. the optys/xenons are a step above the rest
But see, even that I don't understand. Unless they're putting higher-quality chips in the cards themselves, how could they optimize it more or give it better stability? And if they were putting better quality chips on, I've never seen ANYONE say that, so you've got to find a source.

I've seen plenty of the quadro's we have here at my workplace crash (i.e. complete system lockups), and we've already had three of them with fans fail. Yeah, high-quality stuff right there.

Never understood the whole thing with Opertons and Xeons either, except the better MTBF and support. They are way overpriced because AMD and Intel know that companies will pay up for hardware that looks to have better reliability on paper.

Again, all I'm hearing is generic statements about workstation cards being "more reliable" and "better suited" to tasks like 3d modeling. I want to see proof that this is true, and also find out WHY it is true. Why doesn't a soft-modded gamers card take the place of a workstation card? And no more generic statements without unbiased proof please.

EDIT: And GuardianOdin, I appreciate those things you've listed out, but as far as I know you've made that list up. Do you have any proof that those things are in fact true, or is it just hearsay?
post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
EDIT: And GuardianOdin, I appreciate those things you've listed out, but as far as I know you've made that list up. Do you have any proof that those things are in fact true, or is it just hearsay?
made up? and hearsay? You have to be kidding me. Do some research and look for yourself. Companies haven't been buying these cards for years for no reason and even thou some of you think they have money to burn, not all of them do. As a matter of fact a lot of them don't. These cards are optimized way beyond desktop cards and yes of course they will have issues. What product doesn't?

Spec wise,the cards seem identical. The difference comes from the optimized drivers and support. These card run models much smoother and faster with much more detail. Desktop cards render graphics much quicker "on the fly" but are not optimized for advanced modeling for such things as movies,games, design...etc.

Here some links.

Tom's Hardware

Here is a great explanation from shadow_29


ATI Workstation Cards

Nvidia Workstation Cards

Read the articles and posts and judge for yourself. If you believe a standard desktop Videocard "softmodded" is no different,then use that for CAD. Maya and what not.

As for Opterons and Xeons, Yes they are better than the desktop CPU's. They are made of better quality materials. That is why they last longer and can run hotter and cost more. Same with the Workstation cards, the server CPU's may not be as fast as the desktop counter part, but can carry a larger workload.
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post #29 of 36
Thanks GuardianOdin, those articles are helpful. I guess I can see where all those features with precision would be excellent for high-quality renders (e.g. marketing or movies), but I still don't understand where CNC/CAD programmers get the benefit.

The first article that you mention says that the card's drivers cap the OpenGL performance on a regular desktop card versus a FireGL or Quadro. That makes sense, but it's nothing a BIOS softmod cannot fix - not to mention you'd get a MUCH faster card to start with if you purchase a GeForce instead of a Quadro and spend the same amount. Other than that, the support is the only thing I can see as an advantage to a CAD programmer vs. a regular softmodded card, and support alone wouldn't justify the cost for me.

The second article (or post) has a lot of stuff that seems to do with the quality of rendering where accuracy of colors and lighting is critical - I can't see any reason a CAD programmer would need a pretty image. Some of these terms are over my head, so I have to ask, would any of these things mentioned below benefit a CAD programmer?
Quote:
these workstation cards offer features like occulsion culling,lossless depth z-buffer,line anti-alaising,accelarated clip region,clip planes.two sided lighting,opengl logic and overlay planes.a quadro for example can achieve 80 million lit and textured triangles per second fillrate.they also carry third generation vertex and pixel programibility.here is a qute from the manufacturers"Alias|Wavefront, Discreet, Softimage, and more. End users can take full advantage of the programmable NVIDIA Quadro FX architecture by enabling sophisticated real-time shaders to simulate a virtually unlimited range of physica l characteristics, such as lighting effects (fresnel effects, chromatic dispersion, reflection, refraction, BRDF models*, etc.) and even physical surface properties (such as casting effects, porosity, molded surfaces, etc.).
Let me tell you my goal here. I'm not trying to argue with you just for the sake of arguing, I'm trying to find out if it would be worth looking in to softmodding a card for future CAD systems at my workplace. If I found a reliable solution for softmodding, it could save a good deal of money on purchasing new systems. So far, besides support, I don't see any reason a regular softmodded card wouldn't work just as well as a Quadro. I'm trying to find a reason to keep purchasing Quadro's instead of just a regular gaming card.
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
Thanks GuardianOdin, those articles are helpful. I guess I can see where all those features with precision would be excellent for high-quality renders (e.g. marketing or movies), but I still don't understand where CNC/CAD programmers get the benefit.

The first article that you mention says that the card's drivers cap the OpenGL performance on a regular desktop card versus a FireGL or Quadro. That makes sense, but it's nothing a BIOS softmod cannot fix - not to mention you'd get a MUCH faster card to start with if you purchase a GeForce instead of a Quadro and spend the same amount. Other than that, the support is the only thing I can see as an advantage to a CAD programmer vs. a regular softmodded card, and support alone wouldn't justify the cost for me.

The second article (or post) has a lot of stuff that seems to do with the quality of rendering where accuracy of colors and lighting is critical - I can't see any reason a CAD programmer would need a pretty image. Some of these terms are over my head, so I have to ask, would any of these things mentioned below benefit a CAD programmer?


Let me tell you my goal here. I'm not trying to argue with you just for the sake of arguing, I'm trying to find out if it would be worth looking in to softmodding a card for future CAD systems at my workplace. If I found a reliable solution for softmodding, it could save a good deal of money on purchasing new systems. So far, besides support, I don't see any reason a regular softmodded card wouldn't work just as well as a Quadro. I'm trying to find a reason to keep purchasing Quadro's instead of just a regular gaming card.
Well if your looking for cost effective cards, I guess a standard GPU would be fine. They are cheap enough to be tested out. My guess is you may run into stability issues in terms of system lock-ups and crashes becuase the drive are not meant for the desktop cards. I'm not partial to either to be honest,but from talking with friends into CAD and seeing it installed on their home PC....I wasn't impressed. That was 3-4 years ago, now may be a much different story becuase of advancements with the cards since them. I'm almost temped to get a copy to see how well it runs on my 8800GT. I would suggest using a card with at least 512Mb if not a 1Ghz model.
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