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post #51 of 73
As great as MGS was i wish it was longer.
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post #52 of 73
Yea I feel the developers need to go back to the good old PS1 days when we had games like Front Mission 3 and 4 disc Final Fantasy games. I have noticed that most games these days are more focused on multiplayer. Instead of the single player as if the single player campaign is just there to say that yea we these story.

I totally agree with MGS4 being so short. At the moment its got a 10/10 from me but I feel it shouldve had at least 8 Acts, then it can get a 20/10 lol. Bring back 100 hour games! Forget about multiplayer main focus should be single player mode.
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post #53 of 73
I think there is an easy compromise here.

I loved Half Life 1, it was a great game, and 14 hours long (from when I played through it recently) - now, that's a pretty long game for an FPS. Considering I bought it as part of the valve pack and it probably cost me under a fiver, it was probably the best price/fun game I have ever bought.

Now, Look at Half life 2, the trend is it's shorter, like most games, which is a real shame. But now look at the episodes.

The episodes are 4 hours for ep1 (well, more like 3 and a half, but round up) and 5 for ep2, if Ep3 is 5 hours as well, that means together, the episodes make up a 14 hour game.

I think this is the future. Content delivery systems like steam make it possible to sell games cheaply, quickly and easily. It makes episodic gaming a possibility.

Episodic gaming means the company can make back their money as they go, we get to play the game sooner (imagine if all of the episodes were just HL3, we still wouldn't have anything yet), and it keeps our attention better, as people are not slogging through the same game continuously, but rather, get a cliffhanger, and when the next game is released, are up for it.

I think GTA4 is a bad example. GTA4 is an incredibly repetitive game, the missions are way to similar, and to call it x hours of gameplay is a joke when 99% of that gameplay is driving the same route somewhere. It's fun for a while, but lacks edge. Half Life 1 is a true long game, 14 hours, and it gripped me the whole time.

I say this: Bring on the episodes. Make it cheap, make it easy, and give us lots of gameplay, but not necessarily at the same time. I love long games, but short ones (think: Portal) can be excellent too, and sometimes, you can take something on for too long.
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post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
The episodes are 4 hours for ep1 (well, more like 3 and a half, but round up) and 5 for ep2, if Ep3 is 5 hours as well, that means together, the episodes make up a 14 hour game.

I think this is the future. Content delivery systems like steam make it possible to sell games cheaply, quickly and easily. It makes episodic gaming a possibility.

Episodic gaming means the company can make back their money as they go, we get to play the game sooner (imagine if all of the episodes were just HL3, we still wouldn't have anything yet), and it keeps our attention better, as people are not slogging through the same game continuously, but rather, get a cliffhanger, and when the next game is released, are up for it.

I say this: Bring on the episodes. Make it cheap, make it easy, and give us lots of gameplay, but not necessarily at the same time. I love long games, but short ones (think: Portal) can be excellent too, and sometimes, you can take something on for too long.
For me episodic gaming is just a way for developers to make you pay more for the same content by releasing it in smaller pieces (and not necessarily faster). Plus any episode is useless without the rest (and I hate cliffhangers as it's just a way for them to say "OWNED, now you have to buy the expansion/sequel/next episode"). So I disagree with that being the future.
post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoRad View Post
For me episodic gaming is just a way for developers to make you pay more for the same content by releasing it in smaller pieces (and not necessarily faster). Plus any episode is useless without the rest (and I hate cliffhangers as it's just a way for them to say "OWNED, now you have to buy the expansion/sequel/next episode"). So I disagree with that being the future.
.... Pay more for them?

The average game here costs £40. Episode 2 costs $15 alone. - That's £7.50. That'd mean it'd cost £22.50 for all three episodes - slightly more than half the price of the average game. Not to mention if you buy it as the orange box, it costs £20, HL2, Ep1, Ep2, TF2 & Portal.

Edit: In fact, Episode one is $10 now, so that's £5. Even cheaper.

There is no way you can say it is a way to make you pay for. It's possibly the cheapest gameplay I have ever gotten my hands on apart from HL1.

I for one like episodes, they mean you wait less, and I'm impatient, so it works for me. If you hate cliffhangers, buy them once they have all been released and it's exactly the same outcome as if they had released at once, except cheaper, and you get the choice to play sooner.
Edited by lattyware - 6/22/08 at 3:48am
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post #56 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
.... Pay more for them?

The average game here costs £40. Episode 2 costs $15 alone. - That's £7.50. That'd mean it'd cost £22.50 for all three episodes - slightly more than half the price of the average game. Not to mention if you buy it as the orange box, it costs £20, HL2, Ep1, Ep2, TF2 & Portal.

Edit: In fact, Episode one is $10 now, so that's £5. Even cheaper.

There is no way you can say it is a way to make you pay for. It's possibly the cheapest gameplay I have ever gotten my hands on apart from HL1.

I for one like episodes, they mean you wait less, and I'm impatient, so it works for me. If you hate cliffhangers, buy them once they have all been released and it's exactly the same outcome as if they had released at once, except cheaper, and you get the choice to play sooner.
Where I live Episode 1 retailed for almost as much as Half-Life2. Should Episode 2 have been separate from the Orange Box it would most likely have cost at least as much as an expansion (60% of a full game).
Still Valve's policy regarding episodes is Valve's policy and not a representation of how episodes are priced and marketed in general.

You also mentioned waiting less. I remember waiting quite a while for both Episode 1 and 2.
post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoRad View Post
Where I live Episode 1 retailed for almost as much as Half-Life2. Should Episode 2 have been separate from the Orange Box it would most likely have cost at least as much as an expansion (60% of a full game).
Still Valve's policy regarding episodes is Valve's policy and not a representation of how episodes are priced and marketed in general.

You also mentioned waiting less. I remember waiting quite a while for both Episode 1 and 2.
The episodes take the same time to make as a full game was, they don't magically take longer to make because they are episodic.

As to the price, wherever you live, if you by via Steam, it's the same price, so that's rubbish.

And yes, I would only say episodic gaming is good if it's done as valve have done it - for a reasonable price, but frankly, I don't know of anyone else doing episodic gaming at the moment, so you can't judge yet, hopefully valve set a standard.
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post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
The episodes take the same time to make as a full game was, they don't magically take longer to make because they are episodic.

As to the price, wherever you live, if you by via Steam, it's the same price, so that's rubbish.

And yes, I would only say episodic gaming is good if it's done as valve have done it - for a reasonable price, but frankly, I don't know of anyone else doing episodic gaming at the moment, so you can't judge yet, hopefully valve set a standard.
HL2 got released in fall 2004. Now it's summer 2008 and we only got 2 episodes currently worth around 10 hours worth of gameplay. So it took them almost 4 years to make 10 hours of gameplay. That's pretty slow considering they already had the engine made and the storyline planned out.

Prices might be smaller on Steam but I wasn't talking about that. The price on Steam and the price on the box sitting on the shelf are two different things.
I get what you're saying but you have to get me too. My point is that in general episodic gaming tends to be more expensive (it's the nature of common business - the less quantity you buy from a certain good the more you pay per piece of that good). Whether or not that's true in Valve's case has no meaning overall.
post #59 of 73
Well, you have nothing to back up your claim that episodic gaming would be more expensive. I said in my original post:

Quote:
Content delivery systems like steam make it possible to sell games cheaply, quickly and easily. It makes episodic gaming a possibility.
One of the things I said would make episodic gaming work is steam. I get that episodic gaming in boxes on shelves would be too expensive. But I believe that content delivery systems are the future, along with episodic gaming. Half Life 1 was released in 1998, that means it took valve 6 years for HL1 -> HL2, so HL2 -> HL3 (the episodes) taking 4 years, 2/3rds of the way in is about on track, if you ask me.
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post #60 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
Well, you have nothing to back up your claim that episodic gaming would be more expensive. I said in my original post:

One of the things I said would make episodic gaming work is steam. I get that episodic gaming in boxes on shelves would be too expensive. But I believe that content delivery systems are the future, along with episodic gaming. Half Life 1 was released in 1998, that means it took valve 6 years for HL1 -> HL2, so HL2 -> HL3 (the episodes) taking 4 years, 2/3rds of the way in is about on track, if you ask me.
I don't like it that you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying.

Disregard Steam for a minute. Not all games are sold on Steam, not everybody buys from Steam, not all Episodic games will be sold on Steam...

Also you can't say I have nothing to back up my claim that episodic gaming would be cheaper when I just said that it's a general economic rule that the less you buy of something the more you pay per piece. That's how business works.

Yes, it did take Valve 6 years to make HL2 (which was a lot of time), but they had to plan the story, make the engine, make the models, make the animations, make the textures, the sounds etc.
For Episodes 1 and 2 most of those things where already done.
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