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[Purdue] Tiny refrigerator taking shape to cool future computers - Page 2

post #11 of 26
I thought we already decided that something like this would just burn up the motor. And what happens when the motor does burn out? Do you have a fridge repair guy come fix it?
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post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mth91 View Post
I thought we already decided that something like this would just burn up the motor. And what happens when the motor does burn out? Do you have a fridge repair guy come fix it?
This purpose built stuff though. It's a phase unit. A phase unit, unlike a minifridge is intended to run constantly.
    
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post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlaman View Post
Now people will be asking, can i put a refrigerator inside my computer and not can i put my computer inside a refrigerator??
Cool technology, definitely. no pun intended. I wonder when it is available to the consumer how effective it will be, looks still a year or 2 off at least IMHO though.
More like 5 years, at least..

If ever.
post #14 of 26
I've been trying to convince a buddy of mine that conventional fridge compressors aren't durable enough to cool a PC. He'll love this article. Gives him some leverage.

MadTaco
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post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianGrimmReaper View Post
With every process shrink we are using less voltage and giving off less heat while still increasing performance. This article is a bunch of liaz.
As DuckieHo said earlier (quoted below) as the transistor density increases so will the heat density. You may or may not have less heat to dissipate, but the area that you have to dissipate it from is a lot smaller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Duh? That's the only thing keeping it from happening. Captain Obvious?


Nope. With every process shrink and generation of CPUs, we are using more transistors per given area. While the transistors are more efficent, the thermal density is increasing over all. The decreased surface area while increase heat makes it harder to cool.

i.e. 100w over 1000mm^2 vs 65w over 300mm^2
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianGrimmReaper View Post
GPUs produce a lot of heat because they have so much stuff packed into the smallest area possible. Plus the most advanced process is the 55nm by TSMC. Once we go to HKMG 45nm, GPU heat will go down dramatically. The number of cores also won't effect us that much because HyperThreading is coming back, that means you don't need as many cores to have as many threads
Yeah, have you seen tape outs of the "HKMG 45nm" GPU's? Where is the information coming from about the heat going down dramatically.

From this thread and another thread, it seems you are having trouble understanding these physical properties. Heat is in no way related to area. Heat is a measure of thermal energy transferred between bodies. Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy in a body.
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post #16 of 26
Quote:
Yeah, have you seen tape outs of the "HKMG 45nm" GPU's? Where is the information coming from about the heat going down dramatically
We will eventually. The yeilds are better than 55nm by TSMC so why wouldn't we? Intel has the fabs, AMD is working on them last I heard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
As DuckieHo said earlier (quoted below) as the transistor density increases so will the heat density. You may or may not have less heat to dissipate, but the area that you have to dissipate it from is a lot smaller.

From this thread and another thread, it seems you are having trouble understanding these physical properties. Heat is in no way related to area. Heat is a measure of thermal energy transferred between bodies. Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy in a body.
Explain to me then, why is it that with every process shrink, do CPUs start producing less heat. I'm specifically talking about Conroe -> Penryn and R600 -> R670.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianGrimmReaper View Post
We will eventually. The yeilds are better than 55nm by TSMC so why wouldn't we? Intel has the fabs, AMD is working on them last I heard.

Explain to me then, why is it that with every process shrink, do CPUs start producing less heat. I'm specifically talking about Conroe -> Penryn and R600 -> R670.
First off, what does the fact that Intel currently produces its processors on its proprietary 45nm Hi-K process tell you about the reduction in power consumption on future GPUs based on TSMC own 45nm process? Nothing! How can you claim "dramatic" reductions in power consumption (I think that is what you mean when you say "heat") when you have never seen the process demoed (does it exist?)?

Second of all, the transistor density of Intel's 45nm processors is higher than that of any GPU, so how does Nvidia / ATI "pack" more stuff in a GPU?

You are missing of lot of important information. You are making even more relationships based off what are trends, but not true relationships.

There is a lot more that goes into the power consumption of a processor than its process (45nm, 65nm, ect). This should be pretty obvious... not all 65nm processors produce the same amount of heat. You can even buy identically performing processors with different power consumptions.
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post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
First off, what does the fact that Intel currently produces its processors on its proprietary 45nm Hi-K process tell you about the reduction in power consumption on future GPUs based on TSMC own 45nm process? Nothing! How can you claim "dramatic" reductions in power consumption (I think that is what you mean when you say "heat") when you have never seen the process demoed (does it exist?)?
Alright, I guess I was slightly over zealous when I made my "dramaticly less heat" statement.
Quote:
Second of all, the transistor density of Intel's 45nm processors is higher than that of any GPU, so how does Nvidia / ATI "pack" more stuff in a GPU?
A large portion of CPUs is dedicated to cache while on GPUs you have almost no cache and a lot of processing units.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianGrimmReaper View Post
Explain to me then, why is it that with every process shrink, do CPUs start producing less heat. I'm specifically talking about Conroe -> Penryn and R600 -> R670.
Again.... in a simplified analogy:


Let's say a CPU is 1000mm^2 and consumes 100w. That means it needs cooling that can do .1w/mm^2.

Let's say the same CPU is die shrunk and is now 500mm^2 and consumes 65w. That means it now needs cooling that can do .13w/mm^2.

The cooling technology used here might just be a heatsink. A piece of metal to conduct heat away. Eventually, the energy density will hit a point like .2w/mm^2 where the thermal conductivity of normal HS aren't enough. Therefore a heat pump to forcibly move the heat away (and increasing cooling) will be needed.
Once again...
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Once again...
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post #20 of 26
If it can remove heat more efficently than current methods, and can eventually be made at a similar price, I'm all for it.

There may very well come a time when copper, or even silver, does not have enough thermal conductivity to remove heat from a chip fast enough (even if the total heat produced is small) for ambient temps to be suitable for cooling. Subambient cooling may become a necessity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mth91 View Post
lol, duckie's sig first answer. A fridge cannot cool a pc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadTaco View Post
I've been trying to convince a buddy of mine that conventional fridge compressors aren't durable enough to cool a PC. He'll love this article. Gives him some leverage.

MadTaco
You guys really need to read the article first.
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