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[Wired] MPAA Says No Proof Needed in P2P Copyright Infringement Lawsuits - Page 7

post #61 of 100
Wow...
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post #62 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipp View Post
You know, that assumption most likely is correct.

However, an assumption is never grounds for legal action, even in civil court, unless there is a preponderance of other evidence to suggest the defendant is guilty. I would not venture to say that a statement like the one above constitutes more than a 50% level of doubt or certainty. Now, if they track packets and look for TCP receipts that yes, this person indeed made these files available and yes, somebody else downloaded them; I would say there is grounds for action then. It's an issue of principle rather than one of practice. Sure, the intent might be pretty clear here. But if we let this type of "lack of evidence" ruling become commonplace in civil court, it's only a matter of time before "beyond reasonable doubt" becomes "meh, maybe he did it, but I think he wanted to".
You have a point Chipp, and the part I've bold-ed in your statement shows exactly that MAFIAA should still produce the evidence which shows that a packet was shared by someone and received by another one.

IMO these guys play on the fact that for most people Internet is like "ether" - something that isn't quite understandable, trackable, etc. In fact there are bits being transmitted on wired/wireless networks, completely detectable, coded in protocols that are public and accessible to MAFIAA.

If they would like to supply evidence, what's holding them back? It may be easier however to pay lawyers that play games with judge's heads.

*EDIT Like all MAFIAA threads, this exploded. I couldn't stay quiet...
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post #63 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
What happens if you download a movie/album that you already own and paid for, and they happen to catch you downloading it? Thats not really stealing because you could also rip it to your PC. For the purposes of the hypothetical, please do not respond and say "Well then why not just rip it to your PC in the first place?".

In fact, you could just claim that anything you download you already own, and you just lost it.
Because when you use a peer to peer network, you are also uploading the parts of the file to other people.
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post #64 of 100
so, let's sue the MPAA for "spying" on us we just need to make a few assumptions here and there and we have a case!
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post #65 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
If RIAA/MPAA had their way they'd make you pay each time you listened/watched and then have a early stop penalty if you didn't want to finish the whole thing, and then a que fee and search fee, and basically if they could just pay a guy to hoist you by your ankles and shake you until the the contents of you pockets fell on the ground for them to collect they would be ecstatic.
And then they would pay another guy to come frisk you to make sure your pockets are empty.

Seriously though, this is like taking a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

All the judge should say to the prosecutor is 'Can you prove that X number of tracks WERE shared?'

If Yes, great.

If No then end of
Edited by SpuddGunn - 6/23/08 at 5:53am
    
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post #66 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by dglkn View Post
I realize that the debate is whether or not she had the intent to distribute, but this is a civil trial.

So get ready for another theoretical situation:

You walk into my store, and you point a gun to my face. You tell me to give up my cash, but before I can do so, you bolt out faster than a Nehalem processor on liquid nitrogen (or imagine something else fast). Now, you're definitely guilty of attempted robbery under a criminal trial. However, I won't be able to sue you for the amount of money that I was going to give you before you left.
Actually, you could sue me for far more in a civil trial... as long as the damages awarded were not considered "punitive", but rather "restitution". Ergo, you sue for $10,000.00 which is to include: lost wages, counseling, lifestyle impact etc.

Civil v. criminal aside... I think there are far greater forces in play here. The very basic principal of accountability, fair compensation and integrity are just a few things come to mind when engaging in this debate.

Let me state, again, for the record that I frown upon the RIAA and MPAA ... but in this particular case, intent is not only applicable but perhaps the core issue here.
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post #67 of 100
I am sorry but after reading some of the responses here I am deeply troubled.

1. People need to carefully read and consider the OP, its source article and any relevant case history.

2. A distinction between what this particular instance is about and other MPAA and RIAA actions must be made

3. With liberty, comes great responsibility.

The RIAA is not looking to proceed without "proof". They simply wish to be able to move forward without direct evidence of files being exchanged. If you place a copyrighted file, in a share folder accessible to others through a p2p framework... it is IRRELEVANT whether it has been accessed by others. The very action of making it accessible is PIRACY.

Ignorance is not an excuse. I am astounded by the lack of accountability espoused by many of you "patriots". I take our Bill of Rights seriously, as it is the very fabric of which our democracy is woven. I also am appalled by the actions of the government in infringing upon our personal liberties at the behest of corporate interests. HOWEVER, this does not excuse me from remaining objective; and responsible for disseminating the information that is presented in front of me both thoughtfully and carefully. I urge all of you to reflect on what freedom means, and the dear price that others have paid to provide it to you.
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post #68 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poser View Post
I am sorry but after reading some of the responses here I am deeply troubled.

1. People need to carefully read and consider the OP, its source article and any relevant case history.

2. A distinction between what this particular instance is about and other MPAA and RIAA actions must be made

3. With liberty, comes great responsibility.

The RIAA is not looking to proceed without "proof". They simply wish to be able to move forward without direct evidence of files being exchanged. If you place a copyrighted file, in a share folder accessible to others through a p2p framework... it is IRRELEVANT whether it has been accessed by others. The very action of making it accessible is PIRACY.

Ignorance is not an excuse. I am astounded by the lack of accountability espoused by many of you "patriots". I take our Bill of Rights seriously, as it is the very fabric of which our democracy is woven. I also am appalled by the actions of the government in infringing upon our personal liberties at the behest of corporate interests. HOWEVER, this does not excuse me from remaining objective; and responsible for disseminating the information that is presented in front of me both thoughtfully and carefully. I urge all of you to reflect on what freedom means, and the dear price that others have paid to provide it to you.
So I can't share files between my computers? Maybe I just like storing my stuff in the share folder? Why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? It's just a step closer to what others have said, the MPAA wants to sue you for having internet access, because you might be thinking about stealing movies.
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post #69 of 100
Kind of if you get pulled over by a cop, they have probably cause to search you, and find you have a huge stash of pot. They will charge you with "intent to distribute" even though you weren't caught in the act of selling the stash, but just because you had enough with yourself, means that you had "intentions" of mass distributing...

Just like if someone sniffs open ports in your computer, finds you have a running P2P and you have files available for downloading, same situation I guess.
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post #70 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
What happens if you download a movie/album that you already own and paid for, and they happen to catch you downloading it? Thats not really stealing because you could also rip it to your PC. For the purposes of the hypothetical, please do not respond and say "Well then why not just rip it to your PC in the first place?".

In fact, you could just claim that anything you download you already own, and you just lost it.
Say I buy my girlfriend a necklace, and as we're walking down the street one night she happens to loose it. Am I entitled to go steal an identical necklace for her?
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