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[Shack] 2K Lead: Bioshock should've failed - Page 5

post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Honestly i thought Bioshock was shallow, i regretted buying it immensely. They focused too much on constant combat and goal-based gameplay and less on immersing you in the story.
I'm a HL2 fan so comparatively speaking, I think HL2 does a better job of immersing you in the story itself as though YOU are the main person, not playing him.

Having said that, Bioshock has it's 1920's themed music and guns which draw you in all on it's own. The big thing about Bioshock which affects how replayable this is, is the almost infinite number of options between guns and plasmids. In HL2, it gets boring fast using 5 main weapons throughout a game where you fight medium to long range and all 5 can't shoot accurately past short range.

The physics lacked, big time in bioshock and contrary to others' opinions, I did not see, water/fire/heat effects aside, any graphical difference. HL2 has much better realistic faces.
    
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post #42 of 50
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I agree with most of that to varying degrees with one caveat, HL2 did not pull me in. HL2Ep1 did not pull me in. Ep2 however finally did. HL2 was noticeably lacking in background info, and it and all of it's spawn have this annoying tendency to introduce characters and then have all the NPC's act as though they've been there all along and that we should know who they are. Bioshock had the opposite problem, it coddled you - there was nothing to figure out as it explained every little thing. This translated to the surprises being anything but. But the story in Bioshock was much more stirring than HL2 and it's episodes, even with it's predictability.
post #43 of 50
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Originally Posted by Namrac View Post
Or it's a brilliant insight on man's desire to change and improve a world that was fast crumbling after WWII and the aftermath of one man's attempt, a commentary on man's greed for power and influence, a reminder that in a game, the player NEVER has control, even if they seem to, a reflection of moral choices you'd make in a situation when put under pressure, doing things you'd be surprised to do.


Frankly, I think my description's a bit more accurate.


Edit: Bioshock was the first shooter that made me feel bad about shooting. Combine and antlions deserve to die, Nazis and terrorists deserve to die, but splicers? I dunno, I fought to defend myself, but if I chose not to attack a splicer, it was never to avoid a fight, but to avoid killing something that was once a person trying to make a better life for themselves and their family. That's even completely ignoring the Little Sister and Big Daddies, which is another amazing relationship that Take-Two pulled off perfectly.

Bioshock is not the perfect game, but it'd damned amazing.
I agree with with most of that except for I didn't really mind killing splicers they were all nuts and I was pretty much doing them a favor. On the other hand I felt kinda bad killing the big daddies.
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post #44 of 50
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Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
But seriously , the fact that 2K had to market it as an action game rather than as a spiritual successor to System Shock 2 really says somethings about the gaming public - let's just use the word shallow.
Very true...most gamers are shallow, they only want more of the same. And then when a title comes out that actually does try to break the mold a little, it gamers complain about it or it does poorly. System Shock 2 suffered that fate, as did Planescape: Torment.

I'm not sure I understand why this guy was so upset that BioShock had to be marketed as a shooter, though. At its core, it is a shooter. As was System Shock 2, as was Deus Ex, etc. The fact that there are elements from other game genres in there too does not mitigate the fact that shooting is a core, core, core game element here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
I'm a HL2 fan so comparatively speaking, I think HL2 does a better job of immersing you in the story itself as though YOU are the main person, not playing him.
Couldn't disagree more. Throughout Half-Life 2, you are constantly bombarded by NPCs going ga-ga over the fact that they are meeting Gordon Freeman, savior of the world. They were constantly reminding you that you were playing a character...there was no way you could ever imagine that it was you in the game (unless your name actually happens to be Gordon Freeman, anyway).

Don't get me wrong, I love HL2. Just pointing out the flaw in that one statement there, that's all.
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post #45 of 50
It has guns in it. It is first person.

Therefore that makes it a shooter. I don't care what else there is in it.

You kill things with guns - Its a shooter!
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post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post

Couldn't disagree more. Throughout Half-Life 2, you are constantly bombarded by NPCs going ga-ga over the fact that they are meeting Gordon Freeman, savior of the world. They were constantly reminding you that you were playing a character...there was no way you could ever imagine that it was you in the game (unless your name actually happens to be Gordon Freeman, anyway).

Don't get me wrong, I love HL2. Just pointing out the flaw in that one statement there, that's all.
Well that's why it seems more immersive to me. YOU are Gordon Freeman and people acknowledge you as such. Obviously, a little role playing is needed but since everyone refers to you as Gordon, it gets you into that role. In Bioshock, you're only interacting with people who aren't insane via radio. The only time you see someone on the screen that you don't shoot are the little girls after you save them.

That and you fight with the rebels in HL2, so you kinda get a sense of you protecting them from the combine, whereas aside from the 2-1minute convos you have face to face with that lady or killing a big daddy ( which IS the protector ) you're not really protecting the girls once you hit the button to save or kill them.
Even in Doom3, there are people you interact with who seem to want to depend on you for survival. Because EVERYONE in Bioshock is psycho and I've been robbed of a need to protect the girls when i kill a big daddy, i have no tie to anyone in the city. It doesn't matter if they live or die and everyone is an enemy. Because of that, it feels more like a game and kills the illusion.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 7/5/08 at 9:43am
    
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post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
Well that's why it seems more immersive to me. YOU are Gordon Freeman and people acknowledge you as such. Obviously, a little role playing is needed but since everyone refers to you as Gordon, it gets you into that role. In Bioshock, you're only interacting with people who aren't insane via radio. The only time you see someone on the screen that you don't shoot are the little girls after you save them.
Partly that's because that's one of the game elements from System Shock that makes BioShock a "spiritual successor".

But more so, that's just a compromise/design decision that has to be made in order to make the main character YOU instead of a character. Obviously in the modern era of full speech conversation, they can't let you name your character whatever you want and then have him interact with other characters very richly; the lack of anyone addressing you by name would become apparent pretty readily. This was clearly a lot easier back in the old days of text interaction!

The other end of the spectrum is obviously HL2, where you are playing a character. You don't get to be YOU, however you wan't to define YOU; but the upside is that the character interactions are much richer, enabling great character development and storytelling.

I don't think one way is better than the other, both have their merits. I enjoy not being shoehorned into a character, but it's harder to have storytelling as good as HL2's without it.
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post #48 of 50
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Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Partly that's because that's one of the game elements from System Shock that makes BioShock a "spiritual successor".

But more so, that's just a compromise/design decision that has to be made in order to make the main character YOU instead of a character. Obviously in the modern era of full speech conversation, they can't let you name your character whatever you want and then have him interact with other characters very richly; the lack of anyone addressing you by name would become apparent pretty readily. This was clearly a lot easier back in the old days of text interaction!

The other end of the spectrum is obviously HL2, where you are playing a character. You don't get to be YOU, however you wan't to define YOU; but the upside is that the character interactions are much richer, enabling great character development and storytelling.

I don't think one way is better than the other, both have their merits. I enjoy not being shoehorned into a character, but it's harder to have storytelling as good as HL2's without it.
Well, in either story you're role playing. You could be you in Bioshock but are you really in the 1940's and can you really use magic? Both are roles to play. I guess the main thing that didn't draw me in with Bioshock is that I think they should have made me protect the little girls for a little bit or allowed me to come across 4 or 5 non-crazies who I could have helped to safety.

I never played system shock. Wish i had but i hadn't heard of it until people started talking about Bioshock.

I did like the 40's motif and the music.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 7/5/08 at 9:58am
    
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post #49 of 50
Odd, I think the fact that it was a 'shooter' but with a unique twist the the gameplay set it apart from the rest. I really liked this game, but as has been said countless times before it should have FAILed for the stupid copy protection system they tried to employ on it.

More of the same please 2K (Bioshock wise, no Copy protection ).
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post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mth91 View Post
I played through it and thought some features were cool, and some sucked. That's my review. I never played hl2 because I figured that if a bunch of computer guys liked it, it's not for me. I'm into cheap thrills.

;d <- that's a guy getting poked in the eye.
seriously, give the HL series a try. i just played through it 2 weeks ago, and before that i was like "all these punks like it cuz they think it's 'revolutionary'"

then i played it, and was like "well, it's not, but it's damned fun!" a lot more puzzle solving then your average shooters
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