Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › Video Games - General › Are pre-owned games illegal?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Are pre-owned games illegal?

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
Thinking about the Crytek topic and the huge discussion on piracy I sat and pondered on the affects of trading in your games, or buying pre-owned titles.

Copyright holders, Publishers and Developers aren't very keen on people trading in their games. They've even gone as far as trying to make it against the law, but that fell flat on its face. However, when you think of piracy as stealing, you should also think of pre-owned games as stealing because it's a very, very similar concept.

John Doe walks into Electronic Boutique and buys a copy of Halo 3 for $39.99. A week later he brings it back and trades it in. EB then sell it for $24.99. Geoff Smith then comes into EB and buys that copy of Halo 3. He takes it home and enjoys it. Perhaps Geoff will keep it, or perhaps he takes it into EB too and trades it in.

Potentially, dozens of people could play that copy of Halo 3, but Bungie have only received $39.99 for it. Whereas they could've made a few hundred.

So, if piracy is stealing, because one person buys a copy and distributes it to other people. What does tht make EB? They're not only distributing it to other people, but they're making a killing of it, too.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 62
Well i but eb has to pay somthing each time they resell the game im not sure how much tho but you have a good point.
SABERWOLF
(18 items)
 
XEON-WOLF
(18 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6800K MSI X99A GAMING PRO CARBON EVGA GTX 1080 FTW Hydro Copper G.SKILL TridentZ Series 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung EVO 850 500 EK-SBAY Dual DDC 3.2 PWM Serial Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper Radiator 360 Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport Black Car... 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EK-CoolStream RAD XTC 420 koolance 380i Windows 10 Pro ASUS VW246H Black 24" 2ms 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SeaSonic M12D SS-850 850W  Thermaltake core x71 CM Storm Sentinel Advance II Corsair Void 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5675@4400 1.344 ASUS P6X58D-E XfX RX480 RS F3-12800CL7T-6GBPI 6-7-6-21 1T 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL WDC WD1001FALS-00J7B1 ST31000340AS WDC WD7500AAKS-00RBA0 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Hitachi HDS723020BLA642 ihas 624-A SilverStone Heligon HE01 windows 10 64 Pro 
MonitorPowerCase
Vizio 42inch lcd tv CORSAIR CMPSU-950TX Modded Rocketfish 
  hide details  
Reply
SABERWOLF
(18 items)
 
XEON-WOLF
(18 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6800K MSI X99A GAMING PRO CARBON EVGA GTX 1080 FTW Hydro Copper G.SKILL TridentZ Series 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung EVO 850 500 EK-SBAY Dual DDC 3.2 PWM Serial Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper Radiator 360 Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport Black Car... 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EK-CoolStream RAD XTC 420 koolance 380i Windows 10 Pro ASUS VW246H Black 24" 2ms 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SeaSonic M12D SS-850 850W  Thermaltake core x71 CM Storm Sentinel Advance II Corsair Void 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5675@4400 1.344 ASUS P6X58D-E XfX RX480 RS F3-12800CL7T-6GBPI 6-7-6-21 1T 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL WDC WD1001FALS-00J7B1 ST31000340AS WDC WD7500AAKS-00RBA0 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Hitachi HDS723020BLA642 ihas 624-A SilverStone Heligon HE01 windows 10 64 Pro 
MonitorPowerCase
Vizio 42inch lcd tv CORSAIR CMPSU-950TX Modded Rocketfish 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 62
EB does NOT pay royalties when selling used games (unless something has changed in the last 5 years).

I do not see it even close to piracy. Think about it. When you take the game to EB for a trade, you are legally required to remove the software from your system (PC for example) so you are no longer playing it. The new owner will be playing it so only one person will be using that product at one time. This is in direct opposition to piracy where many people will be playing the same game at once. EA games does not lose anything since that game is still only being played by one person. They could argue that they would make more money if trading was illegal, and it is true, but there would still be that copy of the game either in the trash (more for the landfill) or sitting idle on your shelf. How is that fair for the consumer? I own the right to play that game and I should have the right to transfer it to anyone of my choosing.

I used to manage a software rental shop in San Jose (plus we built computers) and we were constantly being bugged by the software producers to shut down. We went to court several times defending our actions and even won a counter suit for harassment against EA, Adobe _and_ M$ (that was a nice bonus). Eventually the shop shut down, but it was only due to the owners ineptitude and less than stellar business sense.
Gaming rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2D E8600 ASUS Striker Extreme eVga 8800 gts 640 OCZ Platinum 4gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD2500JS NEC DVD+-RW Windows XP SP3 2x LG L226WTX 22" widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ideazon Merc Stealth Ultra Atx 600 Cooler Master CM690 Logitech Mx 518 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2D E8600 ASUS Striker Extreme eVga 8800 gts 640 OCZ Platinum 4gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD2500JS NEC DVD+-RW Windows XP SP3 2x LG L226WTX 22" widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ideazon Merc Stealth Ultra Atx 600 Cooler Master CM690 Logitech Mx 518 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 62
Thread Starter 
I don't think that's the case in Europe, though. EA was pushing for it big time, but the EU (bless its cotton socks) council ruled against and said it eliminated free-trade.

My personal point of view is that it's free-trade. I buy something and I ought to be able to sell it to someone if I want to. I think this about most forms of media. Like CD's. I think I have every right to rip a copy to my PC in FLAC, transcode that, when needed, into mp3 for my Mp3 player. But greedy business men think you should have to buy a whole new album specifically in MP3 just for your MP3 player.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 62
Not one and the same thing, you buy a game which enables you to have a license to play it. You then sell that license and someone else buys it giving them the 'license holder' title.

You are just clutching at straws.
Smallville
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i5 3570k Asus Sabertooth Z77 Asus HD7950 DirectCU II Asus HD7950 DirectCU II 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
8GB DDR3 Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz 128GB Corsair Force Pro, 2 x 2TB HDD, 500GB Ext... LG Blu-Ray, DVD/CD RW drive Corsair H60 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit Genuine 27" Crossover 27Q S-IPS 1440p Cyborg V7 Corsair HX1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT Phantom White Microsoft Sidewinder X8 Wireless Steelseries QcK Sennheiser eH250 
  hide details  
Reply
Smallville
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i5 3570k Asus Sabertooth Z77 Asus HD7950 DirectCU II Asus HD7950 DirectCU II 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
8GB DDR3 Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz 128GB Corsair Force Pro, 2 x 2TB HDD, 500GB Ext... LG Blu-Ray, DVD/CD RW drive Corsair H60 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit Genuine 27" Crossover 27Q S-IPS 1440p Cyborg V7 Corsair HX1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT Phantom White Microsoft Sidewinder X8 Wireless Steelseries QcK Sennheiser eH250 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 62
that's bull........once a new game is sold for 39.99 that's it....no more profit for the manufacturer.....they got their money for getting it made and then some......why do you think windows comes with a key? so there is endless profit from it.....if every game came with a key and there would not be EB! think of a car for example.....if it's sold new at the dealership for say 10,000 dollars then the manufacturer made it's money.....after that car is traded in at a used car lot it's sold again but the manufacturer doesn't get anything.....now if the car came with a engine module that died every 100 starts, then that would be pretty much like an OS and you would have to buy a new one from the manufacturer
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5680@4.8GHz 192x25x1.47v EVGA X58 Classified(E759) EVGA GTX980 Ti SLI @1515/8400 6x4GB GSkill Ripjaws@1540 8-8-8-20-2T-1.55v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair Force GT 120GB/OS Corsair Force LS 60GB/PAGE Toshiba 4TB/GAMES CPU-EK Supremacy 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
MB-EK FB Classified GPU-EK FC TitanX/Backplates Rad-Swiftech 360mm MCR-320/Pump Rad-Barrow 280mm 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Ram-Corsair 2x60mm Resevoir-Barrow 250x50mm Misc-6x120mm/2x140mm/NZXT Sentry,Barrow 3/8 fit... Windows 10 Pro x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Seiki 50'' 3840x2160 30hz Logitech G110 EVGA Supernova G2 1300 Lian Li PC-A77F 
MouseMouse PadOtherOther
Logitech G9x Xtrac Ripper XL Logitech G27 Logitech G940 
Other
Xbox One controller 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5680@4.8GHz 192x25x1.47v EVGA X58 Classified(E759) EVGA GTX980 Ti SLI @1515/8400 6x4GB GSkill Ripjaws@1540 8-8-8-20-2T-1.55v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair Force GT 120GB/OS Corsair Force LS 60GB/PAGE Toshiba 4TB/GAMES CPU-EK Supremacy 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
MB-EK FB Classified GPU-EK FC TitanX/Backplates Rad-Swiftech 360mm MCR-320/Pump Rad-Barrow 280mm 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Ram-Corsair 2x60mm Resevoir-Barrow 250x50mm Misc-6x120mm/2x140mm/NZXT Sentry,Barrow 3/8 fit... Windows 10 Pro x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Seiki 50'' 3840x2160 30hz Logitech G110 EVGA Supernova G2 1300 Lian Li PC-A77F 
MouseMouse PadOtherOther
Logitech G9x Xtrac Ripper XL Logitech G27 Logitech G940 
Other
Xbox One controller 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 62
If I own the product, I have the damn right to sell it for whatever reason. Of course we're going to assume that this has been done the right way: the game has been erased from the system, and no copies have been made.

How can they tell me I can't sell my own property?
post #8 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post
EB does NOT pay royalties when selling used games (unless something has changed in the last 5 years).

I do not see it even close to piracy. Think about it. When you take the game to EB for a trade, you are legally required to remove the software from your system (PC for example) so you are no longer playing it. The new owner will be playing it so only one person will be using that product at one time. This is in direct opposition to piracy where many people will be playing the same game at once. EA games does not lose anything since that game is still only being played by one person. They could argue that they would make more money if trading was illegal, and it is true, but there would still be that copy of the game either in the trash (more for the landfill) or sitting idle on your shelf. How is that fair for the consumer? I own the right to play that game and I should have the right to transfer it to anyone of my choosing.

I used to manage a software rental shop in San Jose (plus we built computers) and we were constantly being bugged by the software producers to shut down. We went to court several times defending our actions and even won a counter suit for harassment against EA, Adobe _and_ M$ (that was a nice bonus). Eventually the shop shut down, but it was only due to the owners ineptitude and less than stellar business sense.

Perhaps EB take PC trade-ins in America, but all big retailers here won't touch them. Smaller privately owned businesses do (like where I got my COD4 from, I'm lucky the key works, but I told the guy at the shop I'd be bringing it back if it didn't)

But, if you think about it, it is stealing in a sense. Concentrate on console games for a second. One guys buys a game, MS are paid, he trades it in, he gets paid, EB sells it, they get paid. The person who bought it the second time trades it inm he gets paid, EB sell it again, they get paid (by now they've made back the original cost of the game, no doubt) it can keep going on and on like that. At the end of the day, MS only got paid once, but dozens of people could be playing that game. Sure, only one at a time, but plenty of people are playing it and MS have only been paid once.



EB take the game, sell it, buy it back and redistribute it for more than what they paid for it. MS paid once

Pirate buys game, rips it, distrubutes it for free. MS paid once

OR

Pirate buys game, rips it, copies it and sells many copies on the market. MS paid once.

So, trading in games is as responsible for loss of profits as pirating is.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 62
The difference is, when you purchase the game in the first place, you own that copy and that license. If the EULA allows for a transfer of license, then it is perfectly legal to do so. When pirating is concerned, it is the fact that the game is not being removed from the initial owner when being transfered to the new owner. As the owner of the game/license, you are allowed to pass it on. it is the cpoying part that makes a big difference. It is very similar to OS's. it is legal to sell them to another party as long as the first party reliquishes all hardware, materials, keys etc.
Current
(3 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphics
i5 6600k MSI Z170-A Pro RX-480 
  hide details  
Reply
Current
(3 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphics
i5 6600k MSI Z170-A Pro RX-480 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlasov_581 View Post
that's bull........once a new game is sold for 39.99 that's it....no more profit for the manufacturer.....they got their money for getting it made and then some......why do you think windows comes with a key? so there is endless profit from it.....if every game came with a key and there would not be EB! think of a car for example.....if it's sold new at the dealership for say 10,000 dollars then the manufacturer made it's money.....after that car is traded in at a used car lot it's sold again but the manufacturer doesn't get anything.....now if the car came with a engine module that died every 100 starts, then that would be pretty much like an OS and you would have to buy a new one from the manufacturer
Yeah, but providing the disc remains in good nick, that point is invalid. A car will degrade, the software wont!
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66ghz Asus Striker II Formula nForce 780i Nvidia eVGA Superclocked 8800GT SLI 4 x 1GB OCZ PC8500 1066mhz SLI READY 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 x WD 250GB SATA RAID 0 + 2 x SG 320GB Storage 2 x DVD-RW SATA+IDE Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1 Samsung Syncmaster 2032BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech EX110 Keyboard OCZ 600W StealthXStream Antec P182 Logitech EX110 Cordless Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Random Mouse Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Games - General
Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › Video Games - General › Are pre-owned games illegal?