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Are pre-owned games illegal? - Page 3

post #21 of 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dralb View Post
Hmm, not sure how I have a superior tone when I am using the same font as you I was just trying to point out that, yes there are some similarities, but it is the differences that make the case.
Sory mate. You were just very blunt.
    
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post #22 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin2k35 View Post
Sory mate. You were just very blunt.
No worries, I am at work, so need to be short and sweet sometimes, lol.
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post #23 of 62
They don't do trades for PC games...at least my local store never has any used PC games in the pile but I've never asked. A console you can't have the game installed can you? I know they have hard drive in them these days but they still run the game off the CD/DVD right? if so, it is impossible to have more then one user per piece of software.

A PC game i could leave installed...find an illeagal no CD crack...and then trade it in. Thus you can't trade in a PC game.
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post #24 of 62
I perfectly see what hes saying.
IT ONLY WORKS FOR CONSOLE GAMES

Pirate buys copy. Makers get lets say 20$
Pirate gives copies to people. Makers still only got 20$ but if he distributes to 10 people, they could have made 200$. 180$ vanished.

Legal person buys copy. Makers get 20$
Legal person sells to copy and it is sold back and forth 9 times. Makers only get 20$ when they could have made 200$.

The difference is that the reseller now just pocketed that 180$ (or more if they decide to make a profit. They do but im simplifying)

For the makers, same result, they loose 180$.
This is what OP has been trying to say.


Following this, console games have TWICE the chance to be "pirated" (if we wanna define it as, makers not getting their money) compared to PC games. Take THAT Crytek
    
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post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin2k35 View Post
I don't think that's the case in Europe, though. EA was pushing for it big time, but the EU (bless its cotton socks) council ruled against and said it eliminated free-trade.

My personal point of view is that it's free-trade. I buy something and I ought to be able to sell it to someone if I want to. I think this about most forms of media. Like CD's. I think I have every right to rip a copy to my PC in FLAC, transcode that, when needed, into mp3 for my Mp3 player. But greedy business men think you should have to buy a whole new album specifically in MP3 just for your MP3 player.
When I worked for F.Y.E., we were told to encourage customers to buy a CD, rip it to their computer/iPod, then bring back the CD and sell it back to us, for us to then resell and loop the process. Was that illegal?
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post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnoz View Post
I perfectly see what hes saying.
IT ONLY WORKS FOR CONSOLE GAMES

Pirate buys copy. Makers get lets say 20$
Pirate gives copies to people. Makers still only got 20$ but if he distributes to 10 people, they could have made 200$. 180$ vanished.

Legal person buys copy. Makers get 20$
Legal person sells to copy and it is sold back and forth 9 times. Makers only get 20$ when they could have made 200$.

The difference is that the reseller now just pocketed that 180$ (or more if they decide to make a profit. They do but im simplifying)

For the makers, same result, they loose 180$.
This is what OP has been trying to say.


Following this, console games have TWICE the chance to be "pirated" (if we wanna define it as, makers not getting their money) compared to PC games. Take THAT Crytek
Exactly, I agree 100% with the OP. Of course we are all aware that 1 is legal and 1 isn't, that isn't the point. Not every law is necessarily correct, and as stated, some developers have tried to push for making the resale of games illegal. There are so many people even on OCN that talk about how they hate pirates and how they are ruining the gaming market, yet regardless of the legality of the 2 issues, the resale of games strongly hurts the market as well. So to jump on pirates and then go buy a used game seems funny to me, because legal or not you aren't exactly giving any money to the developers, so you aren't really helping things yourself
    
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post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sublimejhn View Post
Exactly, I agree 100% with the OP. Of course we are all aware that 1 is legal and 1 isn't, that isn't the point. Not every law is necessarily correct, and as stated, some developers have tried to push for making the resale of games illegal. There are so many people even on OCN that talk about how they hate pirates and how they are ruining the gaming market, yet regardless of the legality of the 2 issues, the resale of games strongly hurts the market as well. So to jump on pirates and then go buy a used game seems funny to me, because legal or not you aren't exactly giving any money to the developers, so you aren't really helping things yourself

While that may be true, you do not have the right to choose which laws to abide by. (well, you do, but it is still breaking the law) Also, I personally feel that pirating is wrong as it is stealing, not necesarily due to the lack of money going to the creators. While I feel that the sale of used games does not have trhe same effect on piracy, I also do not think piracy is as big of an issue as it is made out to be (as far as games go)

It seems like you are trying to justify one with the other when there are important differences between the 2. I would have no problem with piracy if the manufacturers put it in the EULA that it was perfectly kosher with them.
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post #28 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnoz View Post
I perfectly see what hes saying.
IT ONLY WORKS FOR CONSOLE GAMES

Pirate buys copy. Makers get lets say 20$
Pirate gives copies to people. Makers still only got 20$ but if he distributes to 10 people, they could have made 200$. 180$ vanished.

Legal person buys copy. Makers get 20$
Legal person sells to copy and it is sold back and forth 9 times. Makers only get 20$ when they could have made 200$.

The difference is that the reseller now just pocketed that 180$ (or more if they decide to make a profit. They do but im simplifying)

For the makers, same result, they loose 180$.
This is what OP has been trying to say.


Following this, console games have TWICE the chance to be "pirated" (if we wanna define it as, makers not getting their money) compared to PC games. Take THAT Crytek
Spot on, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post
When I worked for F.Y.E., we were told to encourage customers to buy a CD, rip it to their computer/iPod, then bring back the CD and sell it back to us, for us to then resell and loop the process. Was that illegal?
That's highly illegal. That makes every single person who copied their CD and brought it back a pirate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dralb View Post
While that may be true, you do not have the right to choose which laws to abide by. (well, you do, but it is still breaking the law) Also, I personally feel that pirating is wrong as it is stealing, not necesarily due to the lack of money going to the creators. While I feel that the sale of used games does not have trhe same effect on piracy, I also do not think piracy is as big of an issue as it is made out to be (as far as games go)

It seems like you are trying to justify one with the other when there are important differences between the 2. I would have no problem with piracy if the manufacturers put it in the EULA that it was perfectly kosher with them.
I beg to differ. I do have the right to choose which laws I do and don't follow. That's liberty for you. Some laws are completely anal and have no leg to stand on. Such as cannabis laws (cannabis can't kill you unless you have a block of it, 1m squared.....fall on your head. Whereas a single night of alcohol can kill you. Alcohol should be illegal) Eitherway, some laws make no sense and I refuse to abide by them.

I think I should be able to sell my videogames to whoever I please, but at the same time it's hilarious to note that trading games in robs developers of potential millions. So, if people were to get all high and mighty over piracy, they ought to do the same with trade-ins. Which they won't. So they ought, instead, to lay off piracy.
    
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post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin2k35 View Post
Spot on, thanks!



That's highly illegal. That makes every single person who copied their CD and brought it back a pirate.



I beg to differ. I do have the right to choose which laws I do and don't follow. That's liberty for you. Some laws are completely anal and have no leg to stand on. Such as cannabis laws (cannabis can't kill you unless you have a block of it, 1m squared.....fall on your head. Whereas a single night of alcohol can kill you. Alcohol should be illegal) Eitherway, some laws make no sense and I refuse to abide by them.

I think I should be able to sell my videogames to whoever I please, but at the same time it's hilarious to note that trading games in robs developers of potential millions. So, if people were to get all high and mighty over piracy, they ought to do the same with trade-ins. Which they won't. So they ought, instead, to lay off piracy.
Well, you certainly do have the right to ignore laws that you don't agree with, but don't for a second think that doesn't make you a criminal. there are plenty of laws I think are assanine, but I abide by them. if I don't like them, I vote for people that think the way I do and hope that things change.

Also, as I have said, I am against piracy because it is illegal. That is it. I do think it hurts the creators and such, but please stop taking part of one thing and using it to justify the other. Just because used game sales and piracy have ONE thing in common does not mean that they are morally or legally the same.
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post #30 of 62
Pirate buys copy. Makers get lets say 20$
Pirate gives copies to people. Makers still only got 20$ but if he distributes to 10 people, they could have made 200$. 180$ vanished.


Legal person buys copy. Makers get 20$
Legal person sells to copy and it is sold back and forth 9 times. Makers only get 20$ when they could have made 200$.

The difference is that the reseller now just pocketed that 180$ (or more if they decide to make a profit. They do but im simplifying)

For the makers, same result, they loose 180$.
This is what OP has been trying to say.


Following this, console games have TWICE the chance to be "pirated" (if we wanna define it as, makers not getting their money) compared to PC games. Take THAT Crytek [/QUOTE]


first one makes some sense however you are free to do what you want with your property, if people new that you can only play the game on one console and never have a chance to trade it in or sell it nobody would pay $60+ for a console game and that would murder the sales, people buy games to play and only play....it's not an os with multiple uses

second one is called piracy and only illegal if you are profiting from it(major no no).....if you are backing up your games that's perfectly fine(it's your responsibility to follow rules and NOT distribute/profit them)......and the reseller could not possibly pocket $180 and i don't even know why you are implying they could(you are only selling it once for $20)

third one...the makers allready made a game once and got payed for it.period
console games can only be played on one console at a time(you need the physical disc to play it).....now again if you are copying and distributing the game YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!
    
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