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[Nordic] Nvidia desperate for 55nm GT200 - Page 4

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croft View Post
Have you seen the specs of the + version?

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1297
Yeah, they'e identical to my card but with a 55nm core clocked to 740 instead of 675. I'm not sure what you're getting at though? My 65nm 9800GTX runs 24/7 at 825 core on water, so I don't see any real improvement in the 9800GTX plus. Maybe it'll run a little cooler to allow high OC's on air cooling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz32 View Post
Only if it was that simple to pull off 920/1200 with a simple water cooling on a 4850. Are you saying we all at home can achieve this overclock no problem with a 4850 and a simple water cooling solution.

Have i seen a 9800GTX reach these speeds on a overclock on air sure.

For 24/7 910/2220/1260

http://shrani.si/f/1z/U9/cGW9X7V/snap2.jpg

So could the 9800GTX+ remedy the situation for this market area, course it could. I see Two great options there for sli and crossfire at a great price. A lot of guys out there that have a sli board and want a cheap upgrade without having to buy a new board the 9800gtx+ is a great solution.

Buying a new system well that's a different matter, the 4870 is the best option value for money on the market IMO.
910 core is most definitely NOT an average 9800GTX overclock. On stock volts, 9800GTX's generally top out around 850 core, and occasionally one will hit 860-870. Just because you can OC the card to 910 doens't necessarily mean the card is stable.


Also, it appears that the 4850 scales MUCH better with OC'ing... I don't think an OC'ed 9800GTX could keep up with an OC'ed GTX 280 like that 4850 posted is doing.
Edited by iandh - 6/28/08 at 7:10pm
post #32 of 58
So if the 9800GTX+ will beat the overclocked 4850, that means it will also beat the GTX280. I don't see that happening.
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post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penicilyn View Post
Don't tease me....

EVGA and XFX ati cards would make my year.
lol I have to agree and even better if they put it on either a black or purple PCB....Man can you imagine a 4870 SSC or FTW edition with increased voltage stock for some awesome oc'ing.
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post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croft View Post
9800GTX+ has already pulled ahead of the 4850 in early benchmarks, and for only $229 the average user that doesn't buy water cooling systems or do overclocking will lean towards nvidia again.

(Just speculation anyway, I defend nvidia to the end)
In the end, I doubt that the 9800GTX+ is really enough to change anything. The only role it really plays is that it gives Nvidia fanboys an alternative the the HD4850. It's biggest problem is that in the games that it does manage to pull ahead of the HD4850, it's by a very slim margin:


However, in the games that it loses, the difference between the GTX+ and the HD4850 is typically bigger.


If you take that into account and realize that driver optimizations will only help the HD4850 while the GTX+ isn't going to benefit as much since the driver is already matured, that leads me to belive that the HD4850 is still the better card to buy. If that still isn't convincing enough, factory OC'd HD4850's will likely debut at the same time as the GTX+.
post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
910 core is most definitely NOT an average 9800GTX overclock. On stock volts, 9800GTX's generally top out around 850 core, and occasionally one will hit 860-870. Just because you can OC the card to 910 doens't necessarily mean the card is stable.
Sorry i did not word it to well, but that is exactly my point. The 9800gtx 910 core is most definitely NOT an average 9800GTX overclock, I agree. as the 4850 @ 920/1200 is most definitely NOT an average 4850 overclock.

My point is the 9800gtx+ is a remedy to the situation for a lot of people who all ready have a sli board and want a cheap upgrade rather than having to buy a new board to go crossfire. A lot of people out there have spent a lot of money on a sli board and this is a great solution/remedy for them.

Don't get me wrong i agree 100% ATI is the way to go, but not for some of us at the moment. If i were to upgrade a new system tomorrow i would buy crossfire.
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post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz32 View Post
Sorry i did not word it to well, but that is exactly my point. The 9800gtx 910 core is most definitely NOT an average 9800GTX overclock, I agree. as the 4850 @ 920/1200 is most definitely NOT an average 4850 overclock.

My point is the 9800gtx+ is a remedy to the situation for a lot of people who all ready have a sli board and want a cheap upgrade rather than having to buy a new board to go crossfire. A lot of people out there have spent a lot of money on a sli board and this is a great solution/remedy for them.

Don't get me wrong i agree 100% ATI is the way to go, but not for some of us at the moment. If i were to upgrade a new system tomorrow i would buy crossfire.
I'm not sure yet wheter 900 core is that unusual for a 4850, but time will tell.

I agree the 9800GTX is a competitive product, but ATM the 4850 looks like a better bet if you don't have a reason to go either way.
post #37 of 58
so does 9800GTX SLI with 9800GTX+? that would blow if it didn't.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by darksideleader View Post
so does 9800GTX SLI with 9800GTX+? that would blow if it didn't.
pretty sure that's a yes.
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post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Russian :D View Post


i think from the pic above you can see why its only 40% yields

Ati 4870 twice as smaller so AMD gets around 70-80% good ones
and Intel is like 90% :O

but thats because graphics cards are more complex then CPU's

I'd pay i little more for a Evga 4870FTW id there was on
Yields have nothing to do with the area of the die. Yields tell you how many chips you make actually work.

So for example, if ATI and Nvidia both had 50% yields, ATI would still get a lot more chips out of a wafer than Nvidia because their chip is smaller.

I would beg to differ than graphics cards are more advanced than CPU's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkcloud89 View Post
In the end, I doubt that the 9800GTX+ is really enough to change anything. The only role it really plays is that it gives Nvidia fanboys an alternative the the HD4850. It's biggest problem is that in the games that it does manage to pull ahead of the HD4850, it's by a very slim margin:


However, in the games that it loses, the difference between the GTX+ and the HD4850 is typically bigger.


If you take that into account and realize that driver optimizations will only help the HD4850 while the GTX+ isn't going to benefit as much since the driver is already matured, that leads me to belive that the HD4850 is still the better card to buy. If that still isn't convincing enough, factory OC'd HD4850's will likely debut at the same time as the GTX+.
I think that the 9800GTX and the 9800GTX+ are going to be very competitive with the 4850. In many cases it depends on the the performance you are looking for (9800GTX+ versus 4850 and 9800GTX+ SLI versus 4850CF is a BIG difference), what kind of hardware you already have, and what games you play.

If you already have a Nforce motherboard (I pity you) and you are looking for high end performance SLI 9800GTX+ is the way to go.

If you don't have a Nforce motherboard and you are looking for high end performance CF 4850's is the way to go.

Then of course CF scales better than SLI in some games and vice versa. So what games do you play?

You point is valid that the 4850 does a lot better in ETQW than the 9800GTX+, but they are both over 60FPS and this is at 1920x1200 at 4X AA. Whats the difference?

The 9800GTX+ will consume less power than the 4850, and this may be important to you.

I would never consider, and never recommend that someone chooses their videocard based on speculation of future drivers. This is foolish. Drivers never live up to their hype.

The 4850 is a good card, no doubt. What I am trying to get at is that it isn't as simple at you make it to be. Someone who buys a 9800GTX+ is not inherently a fanboy, and I lose respect for you and anyone else who uses "fanboy" as an arguement.

People shouldn't forget about the 8800GT, 8800GT SLI, and 9800GX2 as well. They are priced competively.
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post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
Yields have nothing to do with the area of the die. Yields tell you how many chips you make actually work.

So for example, if ATI and Nvidia both had 50% yields, ATI would still get a lot more chips out of a wafer than Nvidia because their chip is smaller.
.
actually the bigger the chip , the more chances it'll get defect during manufacturing, so for example if ATI got 700 chips per wafer and Nvidia do 500 chips(due to larger size) 8 defects on a wafer will probably hurt 8 chips , making ATI yields greater due to them having a smaller chip.
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