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[Official] Diablo III Information and Discussion Thread - Page 171

post #1701 of 29766
Yeah, I made a post upon this before, I'll repost it here:
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Posted 3/18/2012 12:56:33 PM
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What I find funny is many "old school players" as they like to call themselves, are saying they won't get this game, because it's been made "casual".

Not quite sure if they actually played Diablo II. Diablo 1 was surely a hard game, no denying that, required some dedicating to it.

However, the world record for getting to LV.99 is 2 days, with the average playing taking 4 days.

There's 180 skills per class, versus 30 per class in Diablo II. You can put like 4 skills on your hot bar at once...instead of 2, like Diablo II...they removed potions and made enemies tougher and capped it @ 4 players whom literally have to work together to win, unlike potting like a mad man in Diablo II.

So when I see these "old school" players, complaining the game is made for casuals, I'm quite confused. The only thing removed...is stat points...and everyone in Diablo 1 & 2 eventually just followed the same build, if you didn't, you were gimped and useless.

Hardcore is made even more Hardcore this time around, as you have no potions, and the Hardcore RMAH will be separated from the normal RMAH, so items will be more expensive and even rarer. Now if your friend forgets to heal you...ouch. There are enemies they've shown that in Hardcore Inferno mode can one hit kill you, if you're not prepared...this is throughout the game.

So I'm confused as to how it is more casual. I played Diablo 1 when it was released, day and night, so much my parents were worried I'd go blind and took me to a eye doctor. I played Diablo 2 much of the same. Yet, being in the beta, I can right away say, it is as much a sequel to Diablo II as any game could be.

The Beta is restricted to basically Blood Raven, on Easy Mode, with characters buffed to twice their normal stats....and people watch these videos, knowing this...and say it will be more casual?


There are potions, but not in the traditional Diablo sense, 30 second cool down, no mana potions, ect. It's a much harder game. I had a group of 4 enemies warp around me and box me in and beat down on me as as a Wizard.

NEver had that happen in Diablo 1 or two. The enemies boxed me in and nearly killed me lol.

- Full story; http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/930659-diablo-iii/62343149
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post #1702 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkilbride View Post

There are several hundred thousand builds per character, lots of unique skills, advanced enemy AI, no more potion spamming, you can use the environment to kill the enemy.

There are no builds... where do you get that? Having every single skill available in the game at any time which you can simply swap out to make specific encounters easier is not a build. There are no limitations on skill selections. Even with only 30 skills per character in D2 those characters could still not fully utilize all 30 of those skills. You had to pick some and stick with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkilbride View Post

The game is as much a Diablo II sequel as any game could be. You could not make a better Diablo II sequel or Diablo game in my eyes, as someone who has played since the original Diablo was released.

I've been playing since then too, and been gaming since long before that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

...DIII is going to be harder than DII ever was. First of all for PvM there is the inferno difficulty which comes after hell and then there is going to be the Arena, which is a fully functional PvP mode (that DII never had) which has potential to become an e-sport someday.

So the game is going to have balance issues worse than early D2 did? Like getting one-shot killed in a split second buy an overpowered multi-lightning enchanted mob like existed in pre-1.10. Even with max resist and absorb those things were still a rarity to walk away from. Characters had to be geared specifically to counter that in HC if they wanted to survive.

Let's also not forget about PKers. Those were harder than any game AI. From what I have seen the only way to PvP is in the arena now, which eliminates one of the hardest aspects of D2. They may have been cheating, but it still added some challenge to public games. Many people will probably QQ about them, but I liked them. Nothing was better than pwning an unsuspecting PKer when I managed to get one with my also overpowered toon I was questing/leveling with.

Having an inferno mode doesn't mean much. Who says that hell in D3 is going to be equal to hell in D2? D3 also stops at level 60 whereas D2 went to level 99. Simply lowering the difficulty of the existing modes and adding a 4th mode changes nothing except it makes the game take longer to completely beat. Which they probably added because the game is very likely not going to take as long to get through the acts as D2 did. From what I have seen so far the areas are much more linear and don't take nearly as long to navigate through.

If you guys want the game, get it. I don't care. But don't throw around false information to inflate a game into something it's not.
post #1703 of 29766
You're the one doing that.

Simply put;

If you don't like Diablo III, you never liked the Diablo franchise.

It's everything Diablo has always been...and more. It is the proper evolution.

You could not make a better Diablo III, unless you decided to make a new series, not called Diablo. tongue.gif

Every single skill with a 30 second cool down when you swap, and if you swap, you lose your Nephalem bonuses which means you lose out on drops and bonuses to your build. The longer you stick to one build, the more powerful it becomes.

25 skills, 15 passives, with 6 runes each

Per class.

Equals 240 possible skills per class.

Diablo 1's max level was 50, Diablo 2 99,

And Diablo 3 is 60, for now, and Blizzard has expansions lined up every 18 months. So expect increases or so.

And half the skills for each class in Diablo II were useless, completely.

Even if half the skills in Diablo III are uses, that's 120 VS 15. 105 more skills per class than Diablo II. I think there will be plenty of variety.
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post #1704 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkilbride View Post

You're the one doing that.
Simply put;
If you don't like Diablo III, you never liked the Diablo franchise.

I stopped reading right there.
post #1705 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom_Dave View Post

There are no builds... where do you get that? Having every single skill available in the game at any time which you can simply swap out to make specific encounters easier is not a build. There are no limitations on skill selections. Even with only 30 skills per character in D2 those characters could still not fully utilize all 30 of those skills. You had to pick some and stick with them.

So I used to be in your shoes too. The builds in D3 are going to be almost strictly item focused. Later game, items have +skill affixes. So if you want to swap builds whenever you want you will need items to increase your new skills that you chose or you will not be nearly as good as you were with the old skills you had items to complement. (sorry for run on sentence)

And yes hell/inferno will probably have mobs that 2 shot you, which is what makes the game difficult. If they didn't drop you to 10% of your health globe in seconds then it wouldn't be considered "hard" or take skill.
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post #1706 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom_Dave View Post


Having an inferno mode doesn't mean much. Who says that hell in D3 is going to be equal to hell in D2? D3 also stops at level 60 whereas D2 went to level 99. Simply lowering the difficulty of the existing modes and adding a 4th mode changes nothing except it makes the game take longer to completely beat. Which they probably added because the game is very likely not going to take as long to get through the acts as D2 did. From what I have seen so far the areas are much more linear and don't take nearly as long to navigate through.
If you guys want the game, get it. I don't care. But don't throw around false information to inflate a game into something it's not.

I would challenge you the not throw around false information to DEFLATE a game into something it's not. The Beta has literally given us enough to play to compare to killing Blood Raven in Act 1 of D2. Saying "From what I have seen so far"... if you don't have the beta, or even just been reading about the beta... you, we, I, have all seen nothing yet.
post #1707 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom_Dave View Post

There are no builds... where do you get that? Having every single skill available in the game at any time which you can simply swap out to make specific encounters easier is not a build. There are no limitations on skill selections. Even with only 30 skills per character in D2 those characters could still not fully utilize all 30 of those skills. You had to pick some and stick with them.
I've been playing since then too, and been gaming since long before that.
So the game is going to have balance issues worse than early D2 did? Like getting one-shot killed in a split second buy an overpowered multi-lightning enchanted mob like existed in pre-1.10. Even with max resist and absorb those things were still a rarity to walk away from. Characters had to be geared specifically to counter that in HC if they wanted to survive.
Let's also not forget about PKers. Those were harder than any game AI. From what I have seen the only way to PvP is in the arena now, which eliminates one of the hardest aspects of D2. They may have been cheating, but it still added some challenge to public games. Many people will probably QQ about them, but I liked them. Nothing was better than pwning an unsuspecting PKer when I managed to get one with my also overpowered toon I was questing/leveling with.
Having an inferno mode doesn't mean much. Who says that hell in D3 is going to be equal to hell in D2? D3 also stops at level 60 whereas D2 went to level 99. Simply lowering the difficulty of the existing modes and adding a 4th mode changes nothing except it makes the game take longer to completely beat. Which they probably added because the game is very likely not going to take as long to get through the acts as D2 did. From what I have seen so far the areas are much more linear and don't take nearly as long to navigate through.
If you guys want the game, get it. I don't care. But don't throw around false information to inflate a game into something it's not.

Not sure if you are aware of this but Blizzard is working on a system that encourages you to stay with a single build instead of switching builds depending on the situation you are in. It is called Nephalem Valor, click here for more info on it. If there wasn't such a system in place I would agree with you that being able to switch builds whenever I wanted isn't a good thing, but that just isn't the case. Mind you it is still in the works and may change in some way before the game is released.

I'm not sure why you are asking me if the game is going to have balance issues like DII did, it is an impossible question to answer and you only added that to make a negative remark about DIII.

You actually want PKers to be in the game? That is pretty baffling to me based on my experience with them. They were always unwanted, usually a dozen or more levels above my char, and did nothing but ruin games. I'd sit there and wait for them to leave or leave the game myself, abandoning the quest I was doing and start it over. If I wanted to PvP I would have created or joined a PvP game. Nothing but a waste of my time as farm as I'm concerned.

You again ask a question that you and I both cannot answer and I do not know where you get the rest of the below quote from..
Quote:
Who says that hell in D3 is going to be equal to hell in D2? D3 also stops at level 60 whereas D2 went to level 99. Simply lowering the difficulty of the existing modes and adding a 4th mode changes nothing except it makes the game take longer to completely beat. Which they probably added because the game is very likely not going to take as long to get through the acts as D2 did. From what I have seen so far the areas are much more linear and don't take nearly as long to navigate through.
If you guys want the game, get it. I don't care. But don't throw around false information to inflate a game into something it's not

You have 0 evidence whatsoever that they reduced the difficulty of normal, nightmare, and hell and then added the fourth difficulty. As I mentioned earlier in a recent patch Blizzard actually doubled the damage that the monsters do in the beta content to make it a little more challenging. And that is A1 normal..

You also have 0 proof that the game is not going to take as long to get through as DII did. The areas that you've seen are merely a 40ish minute chunk of the game so you cannot take what you have seen and equate it to how the rest of the game will be. You simply do not know.

You accuse me of throwing around false information to inflate the game which also baffles me. I post facts based on what I have learned from credible sources. You are the one posting false information which may potentially sway a person to not to purchase or play the game. Information that you have 0 evidence to back it up with. I am not inflating the game into something its not; you are deflating it into something it isn't.
Edited by Zulli85 - 3/25/12 at 2:22pm
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post #1708 of 29766
I never really understood why people who don't like the game try to argue against those that do. I only see a few possible reasons for this. They could want to prove they are more "hardcore" and dedicated to the "true" series, or perhaps they don't want others to buy the game to be spiteful towards Blizzard for not creating the exact game they had in mind? I doubt anyone is going to change their mind on the game based on some random person's opinion on a forum. It's really quite simple... if you think you'll like the game, buy it. If you don't think you'll like the game, don't get it. Why squabble over the potential for a game that is nearly finished but not released yet?
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post #1709 of 29766
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Originally Posted by WBaS View Post

I never really understood why people who don't like the game try to argue against those that do. I only see a few possible reasons for this. They could want to prove they are more "hardcore" and dedicated to the "true" series, or perhaps they don't want others to buy the game to be spiteful towards Blizzard for not creating the exact game they had in mind? I doubt anyone is going to change their mind on the game based on some random person's opinion on a forum. It's really quite simple... if you think you'll like the game, buy it. If you don't think you'll like the game, don't get it. Why squabble over the potential for a game that is nearly finished but not released yet?

I agree completely. It is a very common thing that I see on various forums but it really doesn't get anyone anywhere.

The problem I have is with the people that spread false information. I have no problem reading posts based on facts, albeit good or bad, but don't post false and negative information that has no merit.
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post #1710 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

Not sure if you are aware of this but Blizzard is working on a system that encourages you to stay with a single build instead of switching builds depending on the situation you are in. It is called Nephalem Valor, click here for more info on it. If there wasn't such a system in place I would agree with you that being able to switch builds whenever I wanted isn't a good thing, but that just isn't the case. Mind you it is still in the works and may change in some way before the game is released.

Even with that system, I still don't see people NOT switching skills for particular encounters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

I'm not sure why you are asking me if the game is going to have balance issues like DII did, it is an impossible question to answer and you only added that to make a negative remark about DIII.

Huh? You said D3 was going to be harder... It couldn't possibly be harder unless there are balance issues. You opened Pandora's box on that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

You actually want PKers to be in the game? That is pretty baffling to me based on my experience with them. They were always unwanted, usually a dozen or more levels above my char, and did nothing but ruin games. I'd sit there and wait for them to leave or leave the game myself, abandoning the quest I was doing and start it over. If I wanted to PvP I would have created or joined a PvP game. Nothing but a waste of my time as farm as I'm concerned.

Those weren't what I would call PKers. Someone who's dozens of levels above you in a public hardcore game should immediately raise a flag. If you got PKed by someone dozens of levels above you then you deserved it. Real PKers were around the same level as the people in the game...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

You again ask a question that you and I both cannot answer and I do not know where you get the rest of the below quote from..
You have 0 evidence whatsoever that they reduced the difficulty of normal, nightmare, and hell and then added the fourth difficulty. As I mentioned earlier in a recent patch Blizzard actually doubled the damage that the monsters do in the beta content to make it a little more challenging. And that is A1 normal..
You also have 0 proof that the game is not going to take as long to get through as DII did. The areas that you've seen are merely a 40ish minute chunk of the game so you cannot take what you have seen and equate it to how the rest of the game will be. You simply do not know.
You accuse me of throwing around false information to inflate the game which also baffles me. I post facts based on what I have learned from credible sources. You are the one posting false information which may potentially sway a person to not to purchase or play the game. Information that you have 0 evidence to back it up with. I am not inflating the game into something its not; you are deflating it into something it isn't.

You can't prove that they didn't... so saying they didn't is the same as saying they did. Doubling the damage of monsters in D3 has absolutely no bearing on the damage of monsters from D2. Maybe that doubling of the damage only brought the damage up to par with D2. Maybe it still isn't up to par. You can't prove it one way or the other.

The same is true for the length of the game. You can't prove it one way or the other. But judging from the beta that is the impression I get.

Once again, you said D3 is going to be harder than D2... I have seen nothing posted by Devs to imply that at all. They simply said it will get harder (since everyone thought it was too easy), not harder than D2... So saying it WILL be harder than D2 is false since there is no proof to imply otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

I agree completely. It is a very common thing that I see on various forums but it really doesn't get anyone anywhere.
The problem I have is with the people that spread false information. I have no problem reading posts based on facts, albeit good or bad, but don't post false and negative information that has no merit.

Like you? How can you possibly know that D3 is going to be harder than D2? You can't, yet you say it is. Quit being a hypocrite.

Once again, I don't care who buys the damn game. I think it's a hatchet job and I have a right to voice my opinion. I have refrained from posting in your thread because my opinions are different than yours. But when you start spreading misinformation I'm not going to refrain any longer. If people decide not to buy the game because I correct your so-called facts then they should be grateful for not wasting their money. I have a right to voice my opinion. If you don't like it, then don't read it.
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