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[Official] Diablo III Information and Discussion Thread - Page 253

post #2521 of 29803
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

This, absolutely. I keep thinking there MUST be some screen with an awesome tree of 'stuff' that I'm just unaware of here ... please tell me there's more to the development system than "okay, you're level 9, now you get Ray of Frost!" or whatever?
Seriously ... this game looks like it was made by a team of 12 people with a .25 million budget over 2 years, back in 2004-2006. And if this game had come out in 2006 without the name Blizzard on the front it would be lambasted as the most derivative D2 clone yet produced. Reviewers would give it a 3/10 and direct people to the far-superior Dungeon Siege 2 and Titan Quest games, which at least offer some game play innovation and actual character development flexibility.
It honestly looks to me like this game was made in 2004-2006, never released because the competition was producing better work, then finally dusted off 6 months ago, at which time they improved the animations and pasted on some frankly poor-looking post-processing effects so that people with higher-end graphics cards wouldn't complain that they only get 5% GPU usage with v-sync on.
To say I'm disappointed in this title at this point in time is a vast understatement. I'm honestly crestfallen and a little depressed right now ... been waiting for this game FOREVER ... and after all this time, when Blizzard's had 12 years to study all the other studio's ideas for the 'D2 Clone' genre ... they basically just give us D2 again, with graphics that look a bit better, but still look 6 years behind the times at best?
I'm starting to feel bad about having talked bad about games like Dungeon Siege, TQ, Sacred and Torchlight (all of which I played the hell out of, and liked quite a bit, despite my complaints along those lines) for being too derivative of Blizzard's work. At this point, in retrospect ... those studios are looking positively genius.

This is what happens when franchises get too big. They get lazy.
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post #2522 of 29803
Quote:
Seriously ... this game looks like it was made by a team of 12 people with a .25 million budget over 2 years, back in 2004-2006. And if this game had come out in 2006 without the name Blizzard on the front it would be lambasted as the most derivative D2 clone yet produced. Reviewers would give it a 3/10 and direct people to the far-superior Dungeon Siege 2 and Titan Quest games, which at least offer some game play innovation and actual character development flexibility.

This while it is very fun and a nice atmosphere so far, the skill system and portraits within them are like torchlights.
post #2523 of 29803
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

This, absolutely. I keep thinking there MUST be some screen with an awesome tree of 'stuff' that I'm just unaware of here ... please tell me there's more to the development system than "okay, you're level 9, now you get Ray of Frost!" or whatever?
Seriously ... this game looks like it was made by a team of 12 people with a .25 million budget over 2 years, back in 2004-2006. And if this game had come out in 2006 without the name Blizzard on the front it would be lambasted as the most derivative D2 clone yet produced. Reviewers would give it a 3/10 and direct people to the far-superior Dungeon Siege 2 and Titan Quest games, which at least offer some game play innovation and actual character development flexibility.
It honestly looks to me like this game was made in 2004-2006, never released because the competition was producing better work, then finally dusted off 6 months ago, at which time they improved the animations and pasted on some frankly poor-looking post-processing effects so that people with higher-end graphics cards wouldn't complain that they only get 5% GPU usage with v-sync on.
To say I'm disappointed in this title at this point in time is a vast understatement. I'm honestly crestfallen and a little depressed right now ... been waiting for this game FOREVER ... and after all this time, when Blizzard's had 12 years to study all the other studio's ideas for the 'D2 Clone' genre ... they basically just give us a further dumbed-down version of D2, with graphics that look a bit better, but still look 5 years behind the times at best?
I'm starting to feel bad about having talked bad about games like Dungeon Siege, TQ, Sacred 2 and Torchlight (all of which I played the hell out of, and liked quite a bit, despite my complaints along those lines) for being too derivative of Blizzard's work. At this point, in retrospect ... those studios are looking positively genius.
Lastly, lemme just say sorry to anyone offended by my sentiments above. I know a lot of us feel a bit 'emotionally invested' in this title, myself included, and I don't mean to say there's anything wrong with 'liking the game', there's certainly not. It is fairly fun, but it's mainly just fun because it's a style of game we 'like' ... but as far as actually being 'impressive' or 'innovative' in any way ... it is a huge fail in my book.

You're right. It would have been WAY more innovative if they threw the same skill tree in that every other ARPG has done for the past 10 years.

Or the fact that every other ARPG out there allows each of the skills to be customized in five different ways to change their visual presentation and effects. Oh wait... rolleyes.gif

Heaven forbid Blizzard tries to take a different approach in moving the genre that they created forward and enticing more players to try out Diablo.

Dang, Blizzard really missed the mark.
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post #2524 of 29803
Quote:
Heaven forbid Blizzard tries to take a different approach in moving the genre that they created forward and enticing more players to try out Diablo.
The point we are making(the point you missed) is that its not moving forward, it feels like some cheap rpgs skill system. It really feels like torchlights. It is dumbed down and far to easy now, while convienece can be good we play these types of games for the great strategies and molding your characters. Not bam you get level 9 heres a new spell equip it and dont customize it.
Apart from that I have it pre ordered now after trying the beta alot of fun still got the same decent atmosphere after I got used to the graphics.
post #2525 of 29803
Do you get attribute points later? Cause that was another thing that bothered me, every single match I joined with other players my character was the same build etc.
I feel each player is going to be exactly the same if not very similary to each other without atrributes and fully customizing your skills, and having trees would be nice.
post #2526 of 29803
Funnily enough, there's a blizz comment on this subject~
Quote:
"Someone on Battle.net questioned the leveling process in Diablo III; primarily, regarding the "lack of thought" needed to play."
I think it's a symptom of the beta where you're in the part of the game where we're very deliberately guiding players by handing out a skill here, a rune there. It's really a crafted and linear experience to start (both in system introduction and environment) because the first couple hours are the most crucial to a successful and long term experience. We're not in the mindset to drop all of the game systems on you and say "Good luck, sucker!"

To some the approach we're taking is likely a turnoff because they want to feel like they're part of an elite group able to figure out complex and obtuse game systems, and be challenged the second the game begins. I think if they stick with it they'll find that there is a ton of depth and complexity to the game. We put the depth into the gameplay, skill, and decision making itself and not the requirement to overcome the UI or understand how the game even works.

If you're one of those players you're going to blaze through Normal, hit Nightmare, and things are going to start feeling really good for you. You just have to understand that not everyone is like you, and we're making the game so a wide range of people can enjoy it.

I agree with everything here, except the whole "you're going to scream through normal" thing kind of sucks, honestly.
Honestly many people here find the later acts of Normal very challenging (like they can't beat the last boss for weeks on end challenging), but I don't want encourage someone to pull up my words later and say "You said it would be difficult!" smile.gif I'm not sure what additional balancing could happen before release.
post #2527 of 29803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchernobyl View Post

Funnily enough, there's a blizz comment on this subject~
Quote:
"Someone on Battle.net questioned the leveling process in Diablo III; primarily, regarding the "lack of thought" needed to play."
I think it's a symptom of the beta where you're in the part of the game where we're very deliberately guiding players by handing out a skill here, a rune there. It's really a crafted and linear experience to start (both in system introduction and environment) because the first couple hours are the most crucial to a successful and long term experience. We're not in the mindset to drop all of the game systems on you and say "Good luck, sucker!"
To some the approach we're taking is likely a turnoff because they want to feel like they're part of an elite group able to figure out complex and obtuse game systems, and be challenged the second the game begins. I think if they stick with it they'll find that there is a ton of depth and complexity to the game. We put the depth into the gameplay, skill, and decision making itself and not the requirement to overcome the UI or understand how the game even works.
If you're one of those players you're going to blaze through Normal, hit Nightmare, and things are going to start feeling really good for you. You just have to understand that not everyone is like you, and we're making the game so a wide range of people can enjoy it.
I agree with everything here, except the whole "you're going to scream through normal" thing kind of sucks, honestly.
Honestly many people here find the later acts of Normal very challenging (like they can't beat the last boss for weeks on end challenging), but I don't want encourage someone to pull up my words later and say "You said it would be difficult!" smile.gif I'm not sure what additional balancing could happen before release.

So people that don't want an overly simplified game system in which they can make no choices about character development automatically want an obtuse game system that is difficult to figure out because we're elitists that need to enhance our self esteem? Sounds like Bashiok should be defending Dragon Age 2 for Bioware...
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post #2528 of 29803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchernobyl View Post

Funnily enough, there's a blizz comment on this subject~
Quote:
"Someone on Battle.net questioned the leveling process in Diablo III; primarily, regarding the "lack of thought" needed to play."
I think it's a symptom of the beta where you're in the part of the game where we're very deliberately guiding players by handing out a skill here, a rune there. It's really a crafted and linear experience to start (both in system introduction and environment) because the first couple hours are the most crucial to a successful and long term experience. We're not in the mindset to drop all of the game systems on you and say "Good luck, sucker!"
To some the approach we're taking is likely a turnoff because they want to feel like they're part of an elite group able to figure out complex and obtuse game systems, and be challenged the second the game begins. I think if they stick with it they'll find that there is a ton of depth and complexity to the game. We put the depth into the gameplay, skill, and decision making itself and not the requirement to overcome the UI or understand how the game even works.

Okay, phew ... that makes me feel a bit better smile.gif

The idea that the game itself was actually going to be 'like' this beta was really getting me down.

I will 'hope for the best' here. I'm sure it'll still look like it was made 5 years ago, but ... if the 'flexibility of character development' part is greatly flushed out from the beta, I'm sure I'll feel better about the game thumb.gif
    
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post #2529 of 29803
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Okay, phew ... that makes me feel a bit better smile.gif
The idea that the game itself was actually going to be 'like' this beta was really getting me down.
I will 'hope for the best' here. I'm sure it'll still look like it was made 5 years ago, but ... if the 'flexibility of character development' part is greatly flushed out from the beta, I'm sure I'll feel better about the game thumb.gif

Are you trolling? You've been complaining about the game since yesterday !
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post #2530 of 29803
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Okay, phew ... that makes me feel a bit better smile.gif
The idea that the game itself was actually going to be 'like' this beta was really getting me down.
I will 'hope for the best' here. I'm sure it'll still look like it was made 5 years ago, but ... if the 'flexibility of character development' part is greatly flushed out from the beta, I'm sure I'll feel better about the game thumb.gif

He never says that the character development changes.The thread the quote came from is here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4571558539?page=1

Basically this is a repeat of what Bioware came back with in response to critics of changes in Dragon Age 2: The rest of the game is going to be so awesome, you won't mind.

Repeat it along with a condescending jab about what people who don't like it must be like to discourage disagreement. Change Management 101...

When a change is actually for the better, you don't need to resort to insulting people who disagree with it to prove the point.
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