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[Official] Diablo III Information and Discussion Thread - Page 258

post #2571 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankaiKiller View Post

Ok I just want to put things in prespective on people complaining about the lack of charactor customization.
monk = 119 combinations
barb = 126 combinations
demon hunter = 130 combinations
wizard = 140 combinations
witch doctor = 125 combinations
combinations = all active skills x (times) runes + passive skills = total amount of build combinations for each class
Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian
now lets throw in gear options. there will be 18 levels of tier gear for each class progressing from act 1 all the way to act 4 of the game.
If that's not enough charactor customization, then what is?

Stats and hair. thumb.gif

Seriously though. Classifying armor in tiers is a step down in customization. Already people know they're gunning for tier 18. D1 and D2 you never knew if you were going to find a piece that tops what you have, or when. Unless "tier" is just a word thrown around to draw in WoW fanboys there are going to be plateaus, which will take away from the excitement of searching.

Number of combinations won't be much if they're not all viable, and since there won't be any motivation for people to do anything other than min-max and steamroll through, you can either jump on the train or enjoy single player. Happens every time.

Edit: WoW, a very profitable product of this very same company, fell prey to this scenario time and time again.
Edited by Ganf - 4/22/12 at 7:52pm
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post #2572 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoodecks View Post

and thats just vanila, dont forget to include primary attack XD

ohh yea smile.gif
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post #2573 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Stats and hair. thumb.gif
Seriously though. Classifying armor in tiers is a step down in customization. Already people know they're gunning for tier 18. D1 and D2 you never knew if you were going to find a piece that tops what you have, or when. Unless "tier" is just a word thrown around to draw in WoW fanboys there are going to be plateaus, which will take away from the excitement of searching.
Number of combinations won't be much if they're not all viable, and since there won't be any motivation for people to do anything other than min-max and steamroll through, you can either jump on the train or enjoy single player. Happens every time.
Edit: WoW, a very profitable product of this very same company, fell prey to this scenario time and time again.

I guess you're right in a sense, but atleast now that you know what to strieve for, you can have that much more of a sweet victory once you finally achieve max gear and level on the gruesome difficulty of act 4 infernal mode. also there could be several updates to diablo3 that could potentially throw in alot more gear and customization, who knows.
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post #2574 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Quote:
Except its your opinion that they are taking steps in the wrong direction. As far as I'm concerned they've been making good decisions which will lead to more good decisions.
Taking customization away in a game that was built around customization? I used to really enjoy being better hack'n'slashing as a rogue than any warrior in D1. Don't like it when Devs tell me what my character is good at.

Are you serious? As it has already been pointed out there is far more customization in DIII. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself but look at the sorc in DII for example. Talk about a cookie cutter build on 99% of them, just throw enough stats into strength to wear your armor and dump the rest in vitality. What are you going to do, put points in dexterity and get 0 benefit out of it? And don't try to tell me that dumping skill points into the same skill 20 times is customization either.

C'mon, its plain as day.
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post #2575 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

Are you serious? As it has already been pointed out there is far more customization in DIII. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself but look at the sorc in DII for example. Talk about a cookie cutter build on 99% of them, just throw enough stats into strength to wear your armor and dump the rest in vitality. What are you going to do, put points in dexterity and get 0 benefit out of it? And don't try to tell me that dumping skill points into the same skill 20 times is customization either.
C'mon, its plain as day.

Day n nite. I toss and turn, I keep stressing my mind, mind.
I look for peace, but see I don’t attain.
What I need for keeps this silly game we play, play.
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post #2576 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

Are you serious? As it has already been pointed out there is far more customization in DIII. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself but look at the sorc in DII for example. Talk about a cookie cutter build on 99% of them, just throw enough stats into strength to wear your armor and dump the rest in vitality. What are you going to do, put points in dexterity and get 0 benefit out of it? And don't try to tell me that dumping skill points into the same skill 20 times is customization either.
C'mon, its plain as day.

Didn't say it was flawless the first time around, but it was there to be improved upon, not just hacked out and hopefully forgotten. And that's exactly what I mean by min-maxing. Plenty of benefit to be gained from dex as a sorcerer, and you weren't allowed to put many points in it anyways. Which I complained about then too. Whichever way you want to go on that argument, the choice was there.

Don't take things away from me and tell me it's more is the end point.

Edit: Halfway through I confused 1 and 2. 2 was incredibly screwed up in that any character could choose to ignore half their stats and be fine. That's just bad design.
Edited by Ganf - 4/22/12 at 8:39pm
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post #2577 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Didn't say it was flawless the first time around, but it was there to be improved upon, not just hacked out and hopefully forgotten. And that's exactly what I mean by min-maxing. Plenty of benefit to be gained from dex as a sorcerer, and you weren't allowed to put many points in it anyways. Which I complained about then too. Whichever way you want to go on that argument, the choice was there.
Don't take things away from me and tell me it's more is the end point.
Edit: Halfway through I confused 1 and 2. 2 was incredibly screwed up in that any character could choose to ignore half their stats and be fine. That's just bad design.

The stats and skills systems were so flawed that they had no choice but to do away with them and start over, IMO.
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post #2578 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

The stats and skills systems were so flawed that they had no choice but to do away with them and start over, IMO.

Stats and skills are nothing new, and they don't need to be new. Tabletop gamers have been making some rulesets work for 3 decades and counting just with a little common sense and grade school math. And they don't get paid to get it right.

If they would stop dinking around trying to make something so simple more complicated than it has to be in the name of "innovation", this discussion would have been stillborn. Truth is they've been doing it since the beginning by putting maximums on stats based on class, thus shoehorning people into the mold the developers wanted them to play.

Let a Witch Doctor dump all their points into Dexterity, maybe that player is just good enough to make it work.
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post #2579 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Stats and skills are nothing new, and they don't need to be new. Tabletop gamers have been making some rulesets work for 3 decades and counting just with a little common sense and grade school math. And they don't get paid to get it right.
If they would stop dinking around trying to make something so simple more complicated than it has to be in the name of "innovation", this discussion would have been stillborn. Truth is they've been doing it since the beginning by putting maximums on stats based on class, thus shoehorning people into the mold the developers wanted them to play.
Let a Witch Doctor dump all their points into Dexterity, maybe that player is just good enough to make it work.

That would almost never happen because it has no use and doesn't make any sense. The cons far outweigh the pros.
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post #2580 of 29766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

That would almost never happen because it has no use and doesn't make any sense. The cons far outweigh the pros.

You're making predictions for numbers that don't exist, for a non-existent player. I'm just going to call this discussion done.

Edit: One last thing, and this is rhetorical. When Hi-rez studios gave classes for their FPS Tribes Ascend pre-determined loadouts that would have maximized the efficiency of each one, players asked for full customization and got it. Only good things have happened as a result.
Edited by Ganf - 4/22/12 at 9:17pm
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My Mangled Mess
(17 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 5930k Asrock X99 OC MSI R9 290x Lightning Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
OCZ Vertex 4 Custom loop Windows 7 64-bit TBD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Professional S series Seasonic SS-1250XM NZXT H630 Saitek Cyborg M.M.O. 7 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Invicta Asus Essence STX II 7.1 w/daughterboard Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick CH Pro Flight Throttle (soon) 
Other
Saitek Pro Flight Pedals 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 2500k @4.7 stable Gigabyte Z68ap-d3 Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 @1250/1750 8gb Samsung low profile green series 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
500gb, WD caviar blue OCZ Vertex 4 128gb SSD 24x dvdrw XSPC RASA RX360 kit 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 23" Acer Rosewill RK9000 w/MX cherry black switches PC Power and cooling 950w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT Switch 810 Cyborg M.M.O. 7 Razer Scarab  Asus Xonar D1 
AudioAudio
Energy Take Classic 5.1 Home Theater Speaker Sy... Sony STRDH520 7.1 AV Receiver. 
  hide details  
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