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[ZDnet] MS working on a non-Windows OS - Page 4

post #31 of 67
Linux is perfect for Desktop use. The only thing that stops it being the best in all areas is the fact microsoft lock in users with proprietry formats and software.

OpenOffice is so similar to MS Office, you can't say that. Even if for you, specifically, you need some feature of MS Office that OO.org doesn't have (and example would be nice), most people are completely happy with OO.org - it's not something that's holding Linux back.

The main things that are holding Linux back:
1) Lack of software for proffesionals: Photoshop, etc... have features that some people just cannot do without, and I accept that.
2) Lack of games.
3) Lack of support from hardware manufacturers.
4) People see it as harder.

This is changing. 4 is being dealt with by Ubuntu, which anybody with half a brain can run, so as long as they actually try it, they are sorted. 3 is also slowly changing. ATI are now pushing their Linux drivers, and are promising Linux drivers that are just as good as their Windows ones, plus they are releasing NDA-free specs. 2, there are loads of roumers and bits going around that the Source engine is being ported to Linux by Valve - that would be a huge one. And 1, well, not much is happening at the moment, but wine exists, and if Linux becomes more mainstream, companies will start selling for it. As soon as it gets a decent marketshare, it becomes profitable to sell to that market.

Windows is not a good consumer OS, it's expensive, bloated, lacks features, lacks security, there are a host of issues. People use it because they are locked in. It is what they know, and they need to use it for one reason or another. This is changing.
People can take FOSS seriously, look at Firefox. When it was first out, everyone laughed at it's lack of ActiveX support, and said it'd never become mainstream. What happened? ActiveX has become a relic of the past.

FOSS is making progress. And people are waking up to Linux being a better OS. It's a matter of time before M$ either get their act together, or loose their grip as vendors start producing for Linux as well.
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post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
Linux is perfect for Desktop use. The only thing that stops it being the best in all areas is the fact microsoft lock in users with proprietry formats and software.

OpenOffice is so similar to MS Office, you can't say that. Even if for you, specifically, you need some feature of MS Office that OO.org doesn't have (and example would be nice), most people are completely happy with OO.org - it's not something that's holding Linux back.

The main things that are holding Linux back:
1) Lack of software for proffesionals: Photoshop, etc... have features that some people just cannot do without, and I accept that.
2) Lack of games.
3) Lack of support from hardware manufacturers.
4) People see it as harder.

This is changing. 4 is being dealt with by Ubuntu, which anybody with half a brain can run, so as long as they actually try it, they are sorted. 3 is also slowly changing. ATI are now pushing their Linux drivers, and are promising Linux drivers that are just as good as their Windows ones, plus they are releasing NDA-free specs. 2, there are loads of roumers and bits going around that the Source engine is being ported to Linux by Valve - that would be a huge one. And 1, well, not much is happening at the moment, but wine exists, and if Linux becomes more mainstream, companies will start selling for it. As soon as it gets a decent marketshare, it becomes profitable to sell to that market.

Windows is not a good consumer OS, it's expensive, bloated, lacks features, lacks security, there are a host of issues. People use it because they are locked in. It is what they know, and they need to use it for one reason or another. This is changing.
People can take FOSS seriously, look at Firefox. When it was first out, everyone laughed at it's lack of ActiveX support, and said it'd never become mainstream. What happened? ActiveX has become a relic of the past.

FOSS is making progress. And people are waking up to Linux being a better OS. It's a matter of time before M$ either get their act together, or loose their grip as vendors start producing for Linux as well.
Have you ever heard the saying, "You get what you pay for". This applies with software too. Open Office is not equivalent to MS Office. Perhaps if your use of the software is limited it may seem that way but if you use MS Office for business and for important documents it is not difficult to see the different. MS Office is superior to Open Office in so many ways.

Windows is not expensive. The most basic version typically costs you $50 on a new computer. That is dirt cheap. Yes it is bloated, but with $500GB HDDs for $75 I don't think to many people care these days. Security on Windows has been good since XP SP2. Security on Vista is excellent. Most of all Windows is easy to use, has excellent "Help" documentation, and it very stable.

Linux is challenging to use. Its installation process is much more complicated than Windows. Installing software is much more complicated than Windows. And I think the world thing of all is that all the software on Linux has strange names, "KDE, GNOME, XFCE, YaST, Xen" which are not intiuitive and quite frankly a bit turn off to every average user I have introduced to Linux.

Linux is not a good desktop OS. Perhaps maybe in a highly limited application like ASUS's 5 second boot OS. But not for a general purpose OS.
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post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
Windows is not a good consumer OS, it's expensive, bloated, lacks features, lacks security, there are a host of issues
I want to raise a few points here.

As most people buy prebuilt PC from manufacturers who have OEM copies of Windows at discounts Windows is not expensive, in minor or major concerns, to most people. They don't even know they are paying for an OS, they think it is part of the PC. So really man, expensive? I couldn't care less about Window's expense, $100 for an OS is plenty cheap for me. (Vista Home Premium 64bit OEM.) And if you are going to mention retail, i want to mention you can use that on any number of PC, so have at it and start installing ASAP. When you realize that the cost of retail Vista is insignificant.

By bloated i think you mean RAM usage and HDD usage. Most people get PC coming with 500GB of HDD space around here. I don't know about you guys when when i have that much i couldn't care less about Windows using up space even if it was 50GB used. As for RAM Superfetch takes the lot of it. If i start a game (which causes SuperFetch to stop) and run up a whole mess of RAM usage then exit, i can find Vista using 2xxMB of RAM, very similar to Linux. Additionally SuperFetch yields large performance increases for desktop. Once people realize that before SuperFetch their RAM was wasted, after what they paid for is actually getting put to use when the PC isn't doing something intensive, then i am sure they can appreciate it like i do.

Lacks features.... i need examples to even understand where you are coming from for this one.

Lacks security, once a Linux guy told me about Linux' equivelant of UAC. He told me because of this system it was virtually impossible to hack Linux, although now i know better, Windows now has a similar (although be it a lot more strict) system for security. In addition to other measures within the OS itself and regular updates from the Microsoft team. Often we hear of security threats in the web news, i don't know about you guys but i have seen about the same amount for Linux as Windows. The OS are very close in security from what i have seen. I won't say UAC or Linux' system are perfect, i won't say either is unhackable or easily hackable, but i will say they are close wherever they are. And bring up the fact it is usually (like 95% of the time, estimated) not the OS that gets hacked, it is an application developed by a 3rd party that has a vulnerability to be exploited.

Do tell about this host of issues.
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post #34 of 67
I'm getting through college using OpenOffice. Haven't had a problem with it being limited. As for Ubuntu, even idiot proofed as it is, it has a learning curve, but I've found for daily internet browsing, typing, and the like that it would do fine. In fact in an office environment where the employees actually can't change their computer settings or install things without the permission of IT I can't see where there would ever be a problem - anyone that can use a GUI can use gnome.

That said I am not using my Linux machine to type this - I only have one monitor, one keyboard, and one mouse, and I got tired of switching over from regular usage to the windows box for high end games. At some point in the future I will go a head and back up all my stuff, format and set up a dual boot, but I like to procrastinate.
Edited by Jarhead - 7/4/08 at 11:06am
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
ActiveX has become a relic of the past.
Even before Firefox, I rarely remember using ActiveX, lol. I don't think it was ever too big of a deal, except in very specific cases. Thank God!
    
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post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
As most people buy prebuilt PC from manufacturers who have OEM copies of Windows at discounts Windows is not expensive, in minor or major concerns, to most people. They don't even know they are paying for an OS, they think it is part of the PC. So really man, expensive? I couldn't care less about Window's expense, $100 for an OS is plenty cheap for me. (Vista Home Premium 64bit OEM.) And if you are going to mention retail, i want to mention you can use that on any number of PC, so have at it and start installing ASAP. When you realize that the cost of retail Vista is insignificant.
$100 is insignificant? I don't want to pay a single cent for a crappy OS that I'm forced to have. Thankfully I've never had to pay for Windows, and yes it's legit.



Also, I had a friend who had hella viruses on her comp cuz one of her friends apparently messed it up by going to questionable sites or whatever. So I rescued all of her music and other files to an external drive (after scanning them), and redid the computer with Kubuntu. She used Kubuntu on her laptop all last school year, and it worked out great for her.

The point is, I think Linux works perfectly well for the average person. But for now, many still need a Linux geek friend to install it for them. Even if it installed just like Windows, many people couldn't do it, because ofc they're used to the OS being pre-installed, so they've never installed an OS.

But that's where pre-installed Ubuntu comes in, from companies like Dell. Not only is it pre-installed, but it can come with support just like a Windows machine. Whether in Windows or Linux, many people will still need help with their computer. With commercial support, anyone should be able to use it.
Edited by Muhahahaha - 7/4/08 at 11:51am
    
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post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Under a rock my friend. Nice to know there's someone else on these forums who likes Windows.
What? The forum is crawling with you guys. Just visit any thread that mentions apple lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
OSX's inherent strength is its tight control by Apple. It would not be profitable to Apple if they released it to general hardware because of the massive increase in development and support costs.
Agreed. I think it's their greatest strength, and their greatest weakness. I also think that they've backed themselves into a corner with this; they're never going to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lattyware View Post
People use it because they are locked in. It is what they know, and they need to use it for one reason or another.
I think that goes for the majority of people. I don't know many people (in real life) that use windows because they really like it. It's always, "Because I need it to do X."

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
And I think the world thing of all is that all the software on Linux has strange names, "KDE, GNOME, XFCE, YaST, Xen" which are not intiuitive and quite frankly a bit turn off to every average user I have introduced to Linux.
Yeah, that was a problem for me in the beginning as well. From the time I started using Linux, I noticed that the developers liked to always complain about people not using it, yet they only thought of themselves and not the computer noobs who don't want to deal with their complicated ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
Linux is not a good desktop OS. Perhaps maybe in a highly limited application like ASUS's 5 second boot OS. But not for a general purpose OS.
I half agree with you there. I think for a general purpose OS, Linux is the answer. But if you're going to get into specifics (games, video editing, whatever), THEN Linux might pose a few problems.

I consider my sisters general computer users, and they do absolutely fine with Linux. My aunt still uses windows 95, so I'm sure she wouldn't have a problem with Linux either for general usage.
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhahahaha View Post
$100 is insignificant? I don't want to pay a single cent for a crappy OS that I'm forced to have. Thankfully I've never had to pay for Windows, and yes it's legit.



Also, I had a friend who had hella viruses on her comp cuz one of her friends apparently messed it up by going to questionable sites or whatever. So I rescued all of her music and other files to an external drive (after scanning them), and redid the computer with Kubuntu. She used Kubuntu on her laptop all last school year, and it worked out great for her.

The point is, I think Linux works perfectly well for the average person. But for now, many still need a Linux geek friend to install it for them. Even if it installed just like Windows, many people couldn't do it, because ofc they're used to the OS being pre-installed, so they've never installed an OS.

But that's where pre-installed Ubuntu comes in, from companies like Dell. Not only is it pre-installed, but it can come with support just like a Windows machine. Whether in Windows or Linux, many people will still need help with their computer. With commercial support, anyone should be able to use it.
I'm calling what it costs to get a PC with Windows on it insignificant. And $100 plenty cheap enough (not i added "for me" to that phrase as well.) As for the viruses i would say there's a 90% chance she just happent o be running Windows XP, which is now out of date.
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post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Didn't know that...so the makers of Midori liqueur just named it after its color? My, how original! Imagine if Jack Daniels were just named "Brown" or Smirnoff was named "Clear"!

Reminds me of the TNG episode with Data serving drinks to Scotty...

Scotty: What is it?
Data: It is...it is...<pause>...it is green.

Maybe data thought it was Midori? (Actually it was Aldeberan Whiskey...yes, I'm just that much of a Trek geek.)
Was that the episode where Scotty was found in a transporter code? When they went to the Dyson-sphere? If it is, that was an awesome episode. Live long and prosper. (we need a Vulcan emoticon)
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post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOwpr View Post
Was that the episode where Scotty was found in a transporter code? When they went to the Dyson-sphere? If it is, that was an awesome episode. Live long and prosper. (we need a Vulcan emoticon)
Yep, that's the one. It's called Relics.
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