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[dvHW] Intel Larrabee has 32 Pentium-based cores? - Page 5

post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Don't forget guys, GPU are all about parallel processing. The 4870 has 800 SP which each act as their own core. I so highly doubt Laurabee will be able to compete with current GPU despite their FLOPs. A few things to consider : What memory are they using? How are they going to deal with the memory controller? How will they incorporate DirectX (or OpenGL?) What memory interface (then again the architectures are so different....) and many more questions. I just don't think this sort of approach will work at all.
The 800 'SPs' don't act as their own core at all. The 4870 has 160 5-issue wide shaders arranged in 10 'cores' or what one wants to call them. The RV770 has 800 cores as much as the C2Q has 16 cores.
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post #42 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
The SP subject wasn't saying it not having SP was a bad thing. I was meaning to draw a comparison in core count. The 4870 has 800 cores clocking close to 1GHZ (rounding off for sake of comparison.) Laurabee has a mere 32 cores at 2GHZ. Power per clock is of course a big factor when making this comparison, remember that the Pentium had support for DDR1/2 whereas the 4870 has GDDR5. The 4870 is highly optimized for graphics, Laurabee is a central processing system which is horrifically bad at graphical data that has been modified to make it good at graphics? The concept in itself sounds very shaky.
You missed it! Larrabee doesn't have SP. Those are 32 actual processing cores. In Nvidia and ATI's GPU you group together a various number of those SP along with some scheduling processor to get the equvilient of 1 Larrabee core.

For example the GT200 has 30 processing units:



http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334&p=2
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post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowman View Post
The 800 'SPs' don't act as their own core at all. The 4870 has 160 5-issue wide shaders arranged in 10 'cores' or what one wants to call them. The RV770 has 800 cores as much as the C2Q has 16 cores.
I was told each one was practically (being the key word) it's own core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauldovi
You missed it! Larrabee doesn't have SP. Those are 32 actual processing cores. In Nvidia and ATI's GPU you group together a various number of those SP along with some scheduling processor to get the equvilient of 1 Larrabee core.

For example the GT200 has 30 processing units:



http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334&p=2
Its still old x86 based CPU we are talking about here. Everyone knows how horrific CPU are at graphics work. Even with 32 times the power it isn't going to be much unless they find a way to really crank up their potential.
Edited by Licht - 7/6/08 at 11:40am
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post #44 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I was told each one was practically (being the key word) it's own core.
Intel is approaching the GPU thing completely different than ATI/Nvidia is you really cannot compare something as trivial as core count. Intel knows how the RV770 and GT200 perform, I doubt it is going to release something next year that cannot compete.
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post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
Intel is approaching the GPU thing completely different than ATI/Nvidia is you really cannot compare something as trivial as core count. Intel knows how the RV770 and GT200 perform, I doubt it is going to release something next year that cannot compete.
Do you know how big each of these cores will be? I want to think of yield in this too.
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post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
Do you know how big each of these cores will be? I want to think of yield in this too.
Well each core could be close to the size of Atom, which fits over 2500 processors on each 300mm wafer. So you could estimate that they can get 78 Larrabee processors per waffer. But that is a huge estimation, each Larrabee core should be quite a bit smaller than a Atom CPU.
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post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
Well each core could be close to the size of Atom, which fits over 2500 processors on each 300mm wafer. So you could estimate that they can get 78 Larrabee processors per waffer. But that is a huge estimation, each Larrabee core should be quite a bit smaller than a Atom CPU.
Will the cores be separate or somehow integrated? Then again, either way they will use an FSB i would think...
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post #48 of 63
FSB is heading out. Larrabee will use QPI
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post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I was told each one was practically (being the key word) it's own core.
Pauldovi and bowman are both right, it works something like this:

RV770 does not have 800 stream processors, it really only has 160. But each of these 160 can execute 5 instructions from the same thread at once (compared to the single issue width of GT200 SPs). So if something is coded specifically for RV770, effectively it will have 800 SPs which is how they come up with that number: 160 * 5 = 800. Really these aren't comparable to the Larabee's 32 cores at all. The closest thing would probably be RV770's 10 execution units.

Quote:
Its still old x86 based CPU we are talking about here. Everyone knows how horrific CPU are at graphics work. Even with 32 times the power it isn't going to be much unless they find a way to really crank up their potential.
You're right in saying that x86 cores are terrible for doing traditional graphics work, but the aim of Larabee is ray tracing.

I think right now it's probably too early to say whether or not this will take off in games. Given the amount of extra processing power required to do it, the visual result isn't that much better. We also don't know how much work AMD/Nvidia are putting into ray-tracing and getting it to run on their hardware. Intel is just being the most vocal about it because it's what Larabee will do best, and it's their main selling point since there's the chance that Larabee will still be terrible at handling graphics the way GPUs do right now.
Edited by darkcloud89 - 7/6/08 at 12:17pm
post #50 of 63
so were looking at a new workstation graphics card instead? its not like we'll have ray tracing games by then.
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