Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Linux, Unix › Full blown Linux user... NOT
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Full blown Linux user... NOT - Page 3

post #21 of 41
Thread Starter 
sorry but i dont feel like paying for cedega... it seems pointless because cedega uses the same basic source as WINE
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E2200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
T240HD 
Case
Antec Sonata III 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E2200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
T240HD 
Case
Antec Sonata III 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 41
Im in love with linux and open source in general, i recommend it to low budget builds and new computer users, i' am in love, however for games i use windows i have tried and wine and cidega i think it is brilliant what people can do!.

i forever switch beween os's i like to fiddle when i get it to work i move on, that is just me this is what is interesting to me,

for a new person to linux always stick to this " do not expect it to be windows, expect it to function, expect it to what you make it do, that is all, that is the devine rule"
Meh
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 DFI P45 t2rs-plus 560 ti  4gb 1066 ocz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250gb seagate samsung Windows 7 x64 Dell 24" 
PowerCase
Be! quiet 630w modular NZXT beta evo 
  hide details  
Reply
Meh
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 DFI P45 t2rs-plus 560 ti  4gb 1066 ocz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250gb seagate samsung Windows 7 x64 Dell 24" 
PowerCase
Be! quiet 630w modular NZXT beta evo 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanuel View Post
This is as true as saying that MACs have no virus, the day that Linux gains a bigger share in the operating systems, it will be a target just like how OS X is starting to get a few security issues recently.
Damn. rabidgnome beat me to it.

The "market share" argument is fallacious precisely for the reasons stated in the article rabidgnome quoted. If you want to read another in depth explanation of why this argument is wrong, read:

http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus

Basically it all comes down to file permissions. Unix systems keep strict access controls over the important system directories, requiring a root password to even access them at all. Since it is impossible for a virus writer to know your root password, the virus can do nothing to damage your system as a whole. Of course, this is assuming you don't login as root to surf the web or download executable files, etc. As long as you login as a user to do your business, you will have no problems.

In Windows, everyone is treated the same. So whatever you do can affect your ENTIRE system (registry, Windows directory, etc.) M$ tried to correct this in NT/2000/XP, but failed to copy Unix completely. The main reason is that most applications won't work (without a LOT of tweaking) when one signs on with a non-administrator account. Essentially, creating a user account will break a lot of your apps. Therefore, most people don't even try to fool with it, and just simply always sign on as an administrator. It also doesn't help that M$, by default, makes the user an administrator. If you want to separate the admin from the user accounts, you have to specifically attempt to do so. Most people have no clue as to what an admin account even is, much less attempt to make it work.

In order for Windows to be truly Unix like, MS would have to completely rewrite the OS. Since they have so much time and money invested in the current kernel (and not to mention that it would be a nightmare making legacy apps compatible), they are stuck with what they have. If you think Vista's tendency to break apps was bad, imagine if MS rewrote the entire kernel from scratch. They simply cannot afford to do that, since so many software companies/programmers rely on the current system. This is another advantage Unix has -- the software apps are usually maintained by the distro, thus negating the need for the user to surf around the web installing random stuff.

Unix simply has a better model all the way around.
Skylake Build
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6600k Gigabyte Z-170 Gaming 7 Gigabyte R9 390  Gskill Ripjaws V DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 Evo Corsair H115i Windows 10 Pro Asus  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Generic EVGA NEX750 G1 Phanteks Eclipse P400 GSkill MX780 
  hide details  
Reply
Skylake Build
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6600k Gigabyte Z-170 Gaming 7 Gigabyte R9 390  Gskill Ripjaws V DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 Evo Corsair H115i Windows 10 Pro Asus  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Generic EVGA NEX750 G1 Phanteks Eclipse P400 GSkill MX780 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoFX View Post
okay well. back on topic now. so.. i dont need people to bash me about my OP.
You were kind of asking for it. Another thing; DirectX = Windows. Yet another reason windows games don't function all too well in Linux.

FYI to the person talking about trying BT3 as their everyday distro. You do realize that is not what BackTrack is for, right?
Mod
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 G0 @ 3390MHz Asus P5Q XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition 767/1833 2x1g OCZ Reaper DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 160G SATA Light-on Lightscribe Drive Ubuntu Syncmaster 730B 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Rosewill 550w SLI TT Tsunami MX518 
Mouse Pad
None 
  hide details  
Reply
Mod
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 G0 @ 3390MHz Asus P5Q XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition 767/1833 2x1g OCZ Reaper DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 160G SATA Light-on Lightscribe Drive Ubuntu Syncmaster 730B 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Rosewill 550w SLI TT Tsunami MX518 
Mouse Pad
None 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 41
I wish i could use LINUX :@ however it doesn't support my IGP 9000 card
Gaming PC
(16 items)
 
HTC 10
(8 items)
 
Good Price/Performance for gaming
Intel Core i5-4690K OEM Quad Core Processor (3.50GHz-3.90GHz)
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K (Delidded) MSI Z97 MPOWER AC MAX EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid  CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R A-DATA Cheapo SSD 2x ST2000DM001-1ER164 ASMedia® ASM1061 (External) 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
swiftech h320 Stripped Win 10 x64 15063 *M* SAMSUNG LS24F350 *S* LG 22MP48HQ 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair RM850w Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair Harpoon RGB Fiio E7 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 MSM8996 Adreno 530 2x 2GB LPDDR4 32 GB eMMC Flash 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Passive Dev 7.0 #2.51.617.1 + Magisk Super LCD 5: 2560x1440 (565 PPI) 3,000 mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming PC
(16 items)
 
HTC 10
(8 items)
 
Good Price/Performance for gaming
Intel Core i5-4690K OEM Quad Core Processor (3.50GHz-3.90GHz)
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K (Delidded) MSI Z97 MPOWER AC MAX EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid  CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R A-DATA Cheapo SSD 2x ST2000DM001-1ER164 ASMedia® ASM1061 (External) 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
swiftech h320 Stripped Win 10 x64 15063 *M* SAMSUNG LS24F350 *S* LG 22MP48HQ 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair RM850w Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair Harpoon RGB Fiio E7 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 MSM8996 Adreno 530 2x 2GB LPDDR4 32 GB eMMC Flash 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Passive Dev 7.0 #2.51.617.1 + Magisk Super LCD 5: 2560x1440 (565 PPI) 3,000 mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by skydeaner View Post
What are the advantages of using linux over windows xp or vista. I never have understood mainly because i have never asked.
Free + speed

A bumch of games still run under linux, soem ar enative (ut2004) with opengl, some run under wine.
Ventolin
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E5200 GA EP45-DS3R Sapphire HD4850 4GB Mushkin 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
300Gb WD W7 Ult. x64/Ubuntu 11.04 SyncMaster 216BW 55.88cm g110 
Case
A900 
  hide details  
Reply
Ventolin
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E5200 GA EP45-DS3R Sapphire HD4850 4GB Mushkin 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
300Gb WD W7 Ult. x64/Ubuntu 11.04 SyncMaster 216BW 55.88cm g110 
Case
A900 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post
Damn. rabidgnome beat me to it.

Basically it all comes down to file permissions. Unix systems keep strict access controls over the important system directories, requiring a root password to even access them at all. Since it is impossible for a virus writer to know your root password, the virus can do nothing to damage your system as a whole. Of course, this is assuming you don't login as root to surf the web or download executable files, etc. As long as you login as a user to do your business, you will have no problems.
This is incorrect at best, disingenuous at worst. Running as a normal user won't help if the virus exploits a vulnerability that allows it to escalate its privileges to that of root. The article you linked basically dismissed this claim by saying viruses have to be unobtrusive and general and that only people who are running old unpatched services have this problem. The former claim is part of why Windows viruses are prevalent (single architecture, same kernel across nearly all versions) but does not make *nix immune. This is also where "market share" comes in. When 90% of computer users all use the same architecture and the same kernel, it's much easier to write a generalized virus and more profitable at that. The latter claim fails to address undiscovered vulnerabilities in current services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post
In Windows, everyone is treated the same. So whatever you do can affect your ENTIRE system (registry, Windows directory, etc.) M$ tried to correct this in NT/2000/XP, but failed to copy Unix completely. The main reason is that most applications won't work (without a LOT of tweaking) when one signs on with a non-administrator account. Essentially, creating a user account will break a lot of your apps. Therefore, most people don't even try to fool with it, and just simply always sign on as an administrator. It also doesn't help that M$, by default, makes the user an administrator. If you want to separate the admin from the user accounts, you have to specifically attempt to do so. Most people have no clue as to what an admin account even is, much less attempt to make it work.
Most applications won't work under non-admin because developers didn't write them to. This is part of the reason we're seeing a bunch of incompatibility issues with Vista and why the "Cancel/Allow" pops up so much. It's true that MS didn't help this by actually leading the way in designing and developing for this security paradigm, but it's not ENTIRELY their fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post
In order for Windows to be truly Unix like, MS would have to completely rewrite the OS. Since they have so much time and money invested in the current kernel (and not to mention that it would be a nightmare making legacy apps compatible), they are stuck with what they have. If you think Vista's tendency to break apps was bad, imagine if MS rewrote the entire kernel from scratch. They simply cannot afford to do that, since so many software companies/programmers rely on the current system. This is another advantage Unix has -- the software apps are usually maintained by the distro, thus negating the need for the user to surf around the web installing random stuff.

Unix simply has a better model all the way around.
Supporting legacy apps is why Windows is such a cluster**** in the first place. There's so much cruft in there stuck from the old days. Legacy support is NOT for software companies/programmers. The worst they'd have to do is learn the quirks of a new API. The legacy support is there for businesses. Those with old custom built apps that would either cost to much to redesign/redevelop and are usually completely unsupported by the original devs, if they're even around anymore.

Also, software apps aren't maintained by the distro, the packages are (that's akin to saying Canonical maintains Firefox because there's a package for it).

Sorry for the OT....so back on topic. Cedega is primarily based on a very old version of Wine...from before they went with the LGPL license. IIRC, Cedega does contribute some code back into Wine, but a lot of their code is proprietary. There is a free version via CVS that lacks a few features like being able to read copy protected disks.
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3800x2 DFI NF4 SLI-D HD4850 2gb GSkill ZX 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
6+TB of insanity XP Pro L2410NM + DYLM24D6 Corsair 750TX 
CaseMouse
Rocketfish MX 510 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3800x2 DFI NF4 SLI-D HD4850 2gb GSkill ZX 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
6+TB of insanity XP Pro L2410NM + DYLM24D6 Corsair 750TX 
CaseMouse
Rocketfish MX 510 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by heretic View Post
This is incorrect at best, disingenuous at worst. Running as a normal user won't help if the virus exploits a vulnerability that allows it to escalate its privileges to that of root. The article you linked basically dismissed this claim by saying viruses have to be unobtrusive and general and that only people who are running old unpatched services have this problem. The former claim is part of why Windows viruses are prevalent (single architecture, same kernel across nearly all versions) but does not make *nix immune. This is also where "market share" comes in. When 90% of computer users all use the same architecture and the same kernel, it's much easier to write a generalized virus and more profitable at that. The latter claim fails to address undiscovered vulnerabilities in current services.
Let's assume it is possible in theory to write a virus that escalates a cracked user account to root privileges. The problem is (for the virus writers) that this would be a pretty complicated task -- much more complex than a typical Windows virus.

First of all, the virus would only be effective, obviously, against those who have the specific vulnerability on their computer, and the vulnerability in question would have to be a critical one by definition (usually those vulnerabilities that allow root privilege escalation are critical).

Then you have the major problem of getting the virus to spread. Where exactly would you seed the virus? You certainly won't have much luck by inserting it in the distro's package manager (it would be discovered during testing and never make it to the official repos). You would have an even harder time appending it to the kernel itself. So, what is left? Would you put it on the web and hope to have it exploit Firefox, Konqueror, evolution, etc.? So, now the virus not only exploits a vulnerability on some piece of software on the machine, but also exploits vulnerabilities in the browser? It all seems pretty unlikely to make something this complex actually work, and even if you did, the number of people who would have both a browser vulnerability and another software vulnerability at the same time would be too low to even bother with. And even if you did find it worth the time, the Linux vulnerability would be patched within a couple of days (sometimes hours). Since the popular distros all have automatic updates now, it would die fast.

So, even assuming all of this is possible, why haven't we seen it? Linux has been around since the early 90's (Unix/BSD was around before M$), and there has not been a single demonstration, to my knowledge, of a virus capable of exploiting preexisting vulnerabilities that allows the virus script root privileges. Vulnerabilities exist and are found often, but viruses that exploit them, not so much. The truth is, most viruses that have been written for *nix (and there have been quite a few) were done as curiosities for testing.

Quote:
Most applications won't work under non-admin because developers didn't write them to.
Exactly. This isn't a problem with *nix since it has pretty much had the security system it uses in place for decades.

Quote:
This is part of the reason we're seeing a bunch of incompatibility issues with Vista and why the "Cancel/Allow" pops up so much. It's true that MS didn't help this by actually leading the way in designing and developing for this security paradigm, but it's not ENTIRELY their fault.
I will give you that much. It might not be entirely their fault, but there wouldn't be nearly the virus/malware problem today if not for their security paradigm, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Supporting legacy apps is why Windows is such a cluster**** in the first place. There's so much cruft in there stuck from the old days.
Agreed. But another issue with this legacy app support is not only security, but also lack of speed and efficiency caused by the bloat. Vista is so bloated, it is embarrassing. You need 2 gigs of RAM to even run it decently. The Linux distro I use, on the other hand, has a full compiz-fusion enabled KDE desktop, a lot of various apps, and I never use more than 3-400MB of RAM (and that's when my system has been running for several days. On first boot, it only uses 100 MB). This is not to mention that my SuperPi time is 7 seconds faster in Linux compared to XP Pro. There is some minor memory leakage with *nix, but it isn't nearly as bad as Windows and doesn't happen nearly as quickly in my experience.

Quote:
Legacy support is NOT for software companies/programmers. The worst they'd have to do is learn the quirks of a new API. The legacy support is there for businesses. Those with old custom built apps that would either cost to much to redesign/redevelop and are usually completely unsupported by the original devs, if they're even around anymore.

Also, software apps aren't maintained by the distro, the packages are (that's akin to saying Canonical maintains Firefox because there's a package for it).
When I mentioned the bit about software being maintained by the distro, I was addressing another poster (with the assumption that he was unfamiliar with the system). But, yes, you are right, most software is not coded by the distro's devs. However, it is compiled, packaged, tested, and put in the repositories by them. Essentially the distro acts as a buffer and screener.

Best regards.
Skylake Build
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6600k Gigabyte Z-170 Gaming 7 Gigabyte R9 390  Gskill Ripjaws V DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 Evo Corsair H115i Windows 10 Pro Asus  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Generic EVGA NEX750 G1 Phanteks Eclipse P400 GSkill MX780 
  hide details  
Reply
Skylake Build
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6600k Gigabyte Z-170 Gaming 7 Gigabyte R9 390  Gskill Ripjaws V DDR4 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 Evo Corsair H115i Windows 10 Pro Asus  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Generic EVGA NEX750 G1 Phanteks Eclipse P400 GSkill MX780 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownm View Post
I wish i could use LINUX :@ however it doesn't support my IGP 9000 card

It does. Out of the box too.
Magicbox
(17 items)
 
crapbox
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX 8320 Sabertooth 990FX Nitro+ RX480 Kingston HyperX Fury 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO  Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 Noctua NH-D15 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Kubuntu  Windows 10 Pro Dell U2515H CM Quickfire TK (Cherry Blue) 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Cooler Master Silent Pro M 850W Enthoo Pro Logitech G502 Logitech G440 
Audio
Xonar DX 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Sempron 3300+ HP stock mobo (laptop) 200M (IGP) 2x1GB PC3200 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
100GB ATA133 DVD/CDRW Kubuntu 32 bit 14.1" (1280x768) 
Power
6 cell 
  hide details  
Reply
Magicbox
(17 items)
 
crapbox
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX 8320 Sabertooth 990FX Nitro+ RX480 Kingston HyperX Fury 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO  Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 Noctua NH-D15 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Kubuntu  Windows 10 Pro Dell U2515H CM Quickfire TK (Cherry Blue) 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Cooler Master Silent Pro M 850W Enthoo Pro Logitech G502 Logitech G440 
Audio
Xonar DX 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Sempron 3300+ HP stock mobo (laptop) 200M (IGP) 2x1GB PC3200 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
100GB ATA133 DVD/CDRW Kubuntu 32 bit 14.1" (1280x768) 
Power
6 cell 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 41
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for posting.

Okay. My experience with Linux has been great. The only thing that really got me going was the lack of OpenGL support. I am a gamer after all and it would be very nice to see opengl support or even directx support implemented within Linux.

I like the fact that Linux is far more secure then Windows. It does run faster too, and I noticed that the first time i booted into Linux after the live cd installation.

Like I said, I am a gamer. Always will be and it would be nice to get full DirectX/OpenGL support in Linux. But for now... All we can do is wait.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E2200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
T240HD 
Case
Antec Sonata III 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E2200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
T240HD 
Case
Antec Sonata III 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Linux, Unix
Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Linux, Unix › Full blown Linux user... NOT