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The Official Cooler Master HAF X/932/922/912(+) Club - Page 1760

post #17591 of 23527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Oh and btw? It is fair to compare a 200 to a 120. On decibels alone it's a fair comparison. To beat the 200 you have to add MOAR 120s'. Moar 120s' will beat a 200. But they'll also drive you nuts even when you're undervolting them. Unless you're deaf anyway. Hell, go ahead and add four 120s' and get a head start on the deafness if that's your thing. You won't have to listen to tha wife naggin you about forgetting a "honey do" or two or more. Just turn off your hearing aids and tell her the batteries are dead. lol

You assume sound is a concern. I get that people want quiet rigs, but my computer is under the desk and even if it wasn't, the sound does not bother me. Case fans will not lead to hearing damage any more then listening to music will. When my 6970 needs to be maxed, I'll bump the fan to 55% (65% if overclocked) to keep it under 75C, I don't need silence and I have this tendency to panic when I can't hear my fans because unless the computer is off (and I run it 24/7), no fan hum means something is very very wrong. Hell, I have trouble sleeping without the hum in the background. Loudest fans (not counting gpu) are the 120s that came with my H100 powered directly off molex. Should be around 40dBA. They don't bother me.

And no, Its still not fair to compare 1 200mm against 1 120mm. If the 120 you're comparing to is silent then 2 of them will be just as silent.

Megaflow: 110cfm, 19dBA, 200mm
SickleFlow: 70cfm, 19dBA, 120mm

For the same noise level, the 2 120s win in CFM (by 30cfm, 4 wins by 170cfm), the only argument for why a 200mm is possibly better is static pressure, which I could not find specs for. And that's just CM fans.
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post #17592 of 23527
I have these ones exactly HERE and they are nice and quiet, and will give me much more cooling that a 200mm

Nice Post KyadCK thumb.gif
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post #17593 of 23527
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Oh and btw? It is fair to compare a 200 to a 120. On decibels alone it's a fair comparison. To beat the 200 you have to add MOAR 120s'. Moar 120s' will beat a 200. But they'll also drive you nuts even when you're undervolting them. Unless you're deaf anyway. Hell, go ahead and add four 120s' and get a head start on the deafness if that's your thing. You won't have to listen to tha wife naggin you about forgetting a "honey do" or two or more. Just turn off your hearing aids and tell her the batteries are dead. lol

You assume sound is a concern. I get that people want quiet rigs, but my computer is under the desk and even if it wasn't, the sound does not bother me. Case fans will not lead to hearing damage any more then listening to music will. When my 6970 needs to be maxed, I'll bump the fan to 55% (65% if overclocked) to keep it under 75C, I don't need silence and I have this tendency to panic when I can't hear my fans because unless the computer is off (and I run it 24/7), no fan hum means something is very very wrong. Hell, I have trouble sleeping without the hum in the background. Loudest fans (not counting gpu) are the 120s that came with my H100 powered directly off molex. Should be around 40dBA. They don't bother me.

And no, Its still not fair to compare 1 200mm against 1 120mm. If the 120 you're comparing to is silent then 2 of them will be just as silent.

Megaflow: 110cfm, 19dBA, 200mm
SickleFlow: 70cfm, 19dBA, 120mm

For the same noise level, the 2 120s win in CFM (by 30cfm, 4 wins by 170cfm), the only argument for why a 200mm is possibly better is static pressure, which I could not find specs for. And that's just CM fans.


Coolermaster 200mm Case Fan

  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Fan Type:  Case Fan
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Fan Size:  200 x 200 x 30 mm
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Bearing Type:  Sleeve
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  RPM:  700 RPM
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Air Flow:  110 CFM
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Noise Level:  19 dBA
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Static Pressure:  0.595 mm/H2O
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Voltage:  12 VDC
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Current:  0.16 A (Max 0.28 A)
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Power Consumption:  3.36 W
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Connector(s):  3-Pin
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Life Hours:  30,000 Hours

 

 

Cooler Master R4-L2R-20AR-R1 R4 Series Case Fan

  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Fan Type:  Case Fan
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Fan Size:  120mm
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  LED:  Red
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Power Connector:  3/4 Pin
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Bearing Type:  Long Life Sleeve
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  RPM:  2000 RPM
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Air Flow:  69.69 CFM
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Noise Level:  19 dBA
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Static Pressure:  2.94 mmH2O
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Voltage:  12 VDC
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Current:  0.35A ± 10%
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Power Consumption:  4.2W ± 10%
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
pixel-clr.gif
  gfx-blkbullet.jpg  Life Hours:  50,000 hours
pixel-clr.gif pixel-clr.gif
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clearpixel.gif


Edited by nickt1862 - 2/1/12 at 6:26pm
post #17594 of 23527
Just to clear up this misconception of silent plus silent = silent...

A fly by itself is pretty silent. The more you add however the level of sound increases. It does not decrease nor does it stay the same. Expecting the result to stay the same when adding silent to silent is folly.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I honestly could care less what people do. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate and pointing out that a 200 is better than a single 120 and as I also pointed out, some people want their systems to perform well and cool well but stay reasonably quiet. Just cause some people could care less one way or the other doesn't mean everybody feels that way. I'm not intending my preference is the same as everyone else on the planet. I apologize if it came across that way.

Those R4s' are pretty good fans but imho, static pressure is best for crowded airflow setups. HAFs' don't have much in the way of crowded airflow. R4s are a better Radiator and Heatsink fan for this reason. I won't buy them but that's only because I can get Yate Loons with comparable static pressure for $4 each. Can't even get a BNIB R4 for that. wink.gif

Anyway, do what you gonna do. Haters gon hate right? That's on both sides of this debate. It's not personal, I just see things a little differently smile.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #17595 of 23527
With the above information (thank you for that nickt1862), and with this:

Sickleflow: 70cfm, 19dBA, 120mm 2.94 mmH2O
Megaflow: 110cfm, 19dBA, 200mm, 0.595 mm/H2O
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.fantronic.com/case_fan_guide.html 
Static Air Pressure

The relationship between a PC fan and its static air pressure rating is a murky topic for many. To simplify and make it easier to understand, a fan that has a higher air pressure rating can maintain its rated air flow at higher resistances. A resistance for a fan would be something like a radiator or having to pull or push air through a fan filter (static pressure is not an issue with fan grills, which offer no appreciable flow resistance). Water cooling is a popular application where you need to consider a case fan’s static air pressure rating. If the pressure rating of the fan is too low, the fan will not be able to maintain an adequate air flow through the resistance imposed by the radiator. Yate Loon fans are a great example of case fans that have high static air pressure, yet are affordably priced. If you plan to use a foam fan filter, you will probably want a fan with a higher static pressure rating. Mesh Fan Filters offer much better airflow but do not filter as well.

It sounds like two Sickleflows top a Megaflow in every way. (besides number of screws, maybe price depending on where you get them)

Keep in mind I have no experience in the realm of static pressure. If i misunderstood, please correct me.


It was brought up, one side was told "no, it works like this", the other said "no, I just looked it up and it doesn't". I do not consider this an argument, I consider this to be a debate (as no insults were thrown).

To be honest, considering I thought the tone of this was just fact giving, I find "Anyway, do what you gonna do. Haters gon hate right?" rather insulting. There is no need to react in such a way to numbers being handed around (let alone calling people who took the time to look up said numbers haters). No one said anything to put down people who chose 200mm fans, just explain why 2 120s may be a better choice.

And if its really going to go the '2 120s at 19dBA doesn't actually mean it'll stay that quiet', all that has to be taken into consideration is the 120s only need to be 55cfm each to match the 200, at which point they can go under 19dBA.
Edited by KyadCK - 2/1/12 at 7:01pm
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post #17596 of 23527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Just to clear up this misconception of silent plus silent = silent...

A fly by itself is pretty silent. The more you add however the level of sound increases. It does not decrease nor does it stay the same. Expecting the result to stay the same when adding silent to silent is folly.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I honestly could care less what people do. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate and pointing out that a 200 is better than a single 120 and as I also pointed out, some people want their systems to perform well and cool well but stay reasonably quiet. Just cause some people could care less one way or the other doesn't mean everybody feels that way. I'm not intending my preference is the same as everyone else on the planet. I apologize if it came across that way.

Those R4s' are pretty good fans but imho, static pressure is best for crowded airflow setups. HAFs' don't have much in the way of crowded airflow. R4s are a better Radiator and Heatsink fan for this reason. I won't buy them but that's only because I can get Yate Loons with comparable static pressure for $4 each. Can't even get a BNIB R4 for that. wink.gif

Anyway, do what you gonna do. Haters gon hate right? That's on both sides of this debate. It's not personal, I just see things a little differently smile.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif


It's personal darn it! gunner.gif j/k tongue.gif biggrin.gif

 

HAF cases still have that hard drive tray in the way so it has some "crowded" in it.  The exception is the HAF 912 that one can remove the top hard drive tray if applicable otherwise the walls are there.

 

Time for another drink lol! smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

 

post #17597 of 23527
I could be wrong but the lower the SP the better. I should probably look into the formula for that again but I believe this was how it was explained. Papa Smurf put together a very good guid to fans that is still floating around OCN. So you might do a site search to check it out. If I find it I'll be sure to post the link here. It's been posted before but one can never have too many links to good information here. smile.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #17598 of 23527
One of my biggest issues is that my front 200 doesnt get much air past the hdd's since all 5 bays are used (2 SSD's 2 500gb, and an 80 Raptor) this limits the amount of air moving in the case so my gpu fan (the one in the plastic housing) doesn't have much air to even push over the gpu's. I know it would be louder, but shouldn't it cool much better actually being able to "blow" and hold a pressure not just move air.

I don't know if this relates or if many of you know but it reminds me of the issue that some people discovered with electric "turbo" chargers. the stuck an electric fan in the intake of a car, it was advertised as being able to move 200 cfm (made up #) but could only hold a pressure of 2 psi, and for a "turbo" to do anything you want closer to 8-12psi for starters. So yes the 200 can move air but that does no good for a cooling factor if the moved air doesnt reach the hotter parts?
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post #17599 of 23527
Actually it does make sense. Especially when you have a warmer card than I do and my card still gets pretty hot if I don't turn up the 120 in the bottom and the 120 up top of my system. See I don't have stock cooling only. There are ways to get by with stock cooling and one way is to supplement with extra fans. thumb.gif

All I was saying that all things being equal, a 120 is not equal to a 200. I apologize if it seems cut and dry but that's just how I see things being OCD the way I am. Things tend to be rather simple from a common sense standpoint.

Have you thought about filling that lower fan space with a reasonable flowing 120 to pull the airflow through the drives and one up top to vent the warmer air out in tandem with the upper 200?

One last thing about the multiple 120s in the door. Yes they outcool a single 200. However vibration and cavitation play their roles in this too. If you know anything of Jet aircraft you'll know that one turbine disc won't provide enough thrust to move a plane fast enough to take off. Nor would it if you put another one next to it. It takes several discs to provide enough air flow to move the plane. And typically discs are spaced far enough apart to counteract both cavitation and vibration and that is how air flow is increased. 4 fans next to each other will increase flow but not so much as to make a monumental difference from a small fan in comparison to a larger fan. The CFM will increase but it's not as much as 4 times the maximum CFM unless there is no cavitation causing jet wash to rebound back into the path of the airflow.

I wish I had the flow meter to prove this theory, but a good experiment for anyone who would like to try it is to mount 4 fans to the door and 1st test by holding it inside the case with a Mainboard to provide the uneven surface covered by the flow with the door locked down tight. Then take the door off and again test the 4 fans at the same speed and at Controlled speeds. And then rerun the test using a single 200. I will say that the 4 fans may beat that lone 200, but I don't think that it's as good as people suggest. If I had the tool, I'd do it myself and post the results. I've got more than enough matching 120s' laying around to do it. Just don't have a good meter for testing this theory. I think I'm gonna try to find one for a reasonable price. smile.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #17600 of 23527
You could test your theory by putting strings onto each fan, maybe 4 one in each screw hole, and then adding weight to the strings until they just lift from the horizontal position. this would tell you how much air is moving past them to induce lift. Given these will be small weights like a paperclip or staple. You can run the same test with all 4 fans to test how the air flow moves without the weights and longer strings to see how the air acts as it flows outward. if the strings twist themselves up then it shows that it is turbulent.

You could also reduce turbulent air by creating a shroud to go around the fans to focus all 4 fans to work together? I was planning on keeping the 200 for the top exhaust because it is nice to have the larger quiet fan up top that does put out some air, I just wanted the pressure to actually get the air to move to my cards and in between them so the top x-fire card can get air into it. I may even try to get both 200's up top just to help vent....
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Deauboy16
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