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1000$ Build for my Brother in law. - Page 3

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth0789 View Post
That looks pretty good actually. You can send me the links.
HD
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822136218
4870
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814102797
PSU
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817163108
Sweet RAM
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820231145
16x+16x Crossfire Good OCing x38 mobo
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813136051
Q6600
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819115017
Decent cooler, but if hes willing (or his super nice brother in law is willing) to chip in another 10-20 he could get a TRUE, or a Xigmatek HDT
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835200023
    
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post #22 of 35
I think everyone's one the right track here.

PSU
There's no need for this system to have more than 750W. The TX750 from Corsair will easily get the job done and save approx $150 over the 1000W model. You lose modularity but oh well.

GPU/MOBO
Now here's something tricky. 5 years is a lot to ask of a GPU...A LOT. I see two options for your friend:

1. Use a single GPU setup, saving you money by being able to use a cheaper motherboard, but knowing that the GPU will have to be upgraded at least once in the next five years.

2. Go dual x16 right now and use Crossfire as the GPU upgrade path. This needs a pricier motherboard but is nice because chances are a second, let's say 4870, in the future should give a nice, reasonably-priced boost down the road.

Disclaimer:
I didn't mention Nvidia chipset/SLI because IMO it's not the best multi GPU platform out there...period. Intel/ATI is a better setup for the money.

Also, I thought that dual x8 (P45) would have no performance loss over dual x16 but I was reading an article at Tom's that showed that a P45 did cost a Crossfire setup some frames (in the order of 5-15%). That is why I recommend X38/X48.
Edited by MNiceGuy - 10/19/08 at 3:59pm
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry_John_Scott View Post
Too lazy to post all the links

I went a little over, but I think it's definitely worth it.
Heres an image, I'll send you the links if you like what you see
That's pretty much the same build I put up, just with an X38 board and different PSU. But I dunno, the only thing with it is that since he wants it to last at least 5 years, he should get a P45 because they support 16GB RAM. You never know if it will be needed by then, and being able to get 16GB might mean the difference between having to upgrade the whole system or just the RAM if he needs it. Not like would be giving up any features or OCability by going that route either.


Newegg.ca link this time :

Gigabyte P45 - $160

^^ And this one also takes DDR3, just in case.
Edited by Manyak - 10/19/08 at 4:01pm
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post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
That's pretty much the same build I put up, just with an X38 board and different PSU. But I dunno, the only thing with it is that since he wants it to last at least 5 years, he should get a P45 because they support 16GB RAM. You never know if it will be needed by then, and being able to get 16GB might mean the difference between having to upgrade the whole system or just the RAM if he needs it. Not like would be giving up any features or OCability by going that route either.


Newegg.ca link this time :

Gigabyte P45 - $160

^^ And this one also takes DDR3, just in case.
yeah but it only does 8x8x CF, and hes going to need every ounce of GPU power he can get, RAM isn't all that important, I don't think in 5 years it'll go much past 8gb, considering 2gb is the norm today, and 8gb is 4x that much, and RAM usage doesn't double every year.

And DDR3 doesn't really matter, People on Socket 939s with 2gb of DDR400 are still doing perfectly fine. due to its tighter timings.
    
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post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry_John_Scott View Post
yeah but it only does 8x8x CF, and hes going to need every ounce of GPU power he can get, RAM isn't all that important, I don't think in 5 years it'll go much past 8gb, considering 2gb is the norm today, and 8gb is 4x that much, and RAM usage doesn't double every year.

And DDR3 doesn't really matter, People on Socket 939s with 2gb of DDR400 are still doing perfectly fine. due to its tighter timings.
Agreed. Judging by history, that GPU is going to whimper out long before RAM capacity becomes an issue. I'd stick with an DDR2 X-series and have that second x16 waiting for the inevitable upgrade.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry_John_Scott View Post
yeah but it only does 8x8x CF, and hes going to need every ounce of GPU power he can get, RAM isn't all that important, I don't think in 5 years it'll go much past 8gb, considering 2gb is the norm today, and 8gb is 4x that much, and RAM usage doesn't double every year.

People on Socket 939s with 2gb of DDR400 are still doing perfectly fine.
Well with Vista 4GB is the recommended (after all, XP is way past EOL), and with a new version of windows coming out next year, plus the jump to 6-slot motherboards, who knows what's gonna happen. And if you follow the trend that RAM has taken in the past, its likely that this recommended amount becomes 6GB in 1 year, 9GB in 3 years, and 12GB in 5 years.

Besides, as long as he sticks to 512MB cards the x16 bandwidth won't do much - and unless he uses resolutions higher than 1920x1200 he won't need more than that. And if he upgrades the video card periodically he probably won't even need to CF, just get x2 cards (like the 4870x2). They are cheaper and faster than two separate cards anyway.
Edited by Manyak - 10/19/08 at 4:37pm
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post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 
Hows this?


Seems alright I guess.
 
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post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Well with Vista 4GB is the recommended (after all, XP is way past EOL), and with a new version of windows coming out next year, plus the jump to 6-slot motherboards, who knows what's gonna happen. And if you follow the trend that RAM has taken in the past, its likely that this recommended amount becomes 6GB in 1 year, 9GB in 3 years, and 12GB in 5 years.

Besides, as long as he sticks to 512MB cards the x16 bandwidth won't do much - and unless he uses resolutions higher than 1920x1200 he won't need more than that. And if he upgrades the video card periodically he probably won't even need to CF, just get x2 cards (like the 4870x2). They are cheaper and faster than two separate cards anyway.
I think that you have some very valid points Manyak. So much of this build is speculative given the five-year life expectancy. Who does know what's going to happen? I refurbished a 478 Dell Dimension which according to some markings was manufactured sometime mid-2005. It's a basic P4, DDR, AGP system. For 'lite' apps like Office and Firefox it works great but for more intensive things it's starting to show its age. What could I upgrade? Possibly a 1950Pro AGP? Another Gig of memory? Not worth the money.

I've given this thead some thought. If the buyer wants to have a competent system now that can age gracefully then I think everyone's on the right track. If this system is to remain competent/slightly ahead of the curve as newer games and apps become more demanding on our hardware, I think it should be expected that some major hardware isn't going to make that time line; GPU especially. Five years ago we'd be talking about 9800Pros, 6800GTs, and 478 Pentiums. Such a system would have a lot on its plate today.
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Well with Vista 4GB is the recommended (after all, XP is way past EOL), and with a new version of windows coming out next year, plus the jump to 6-slot motherboards, who knows what's gonna happen. And if you follow the trend that RAM has taken in the past, its likely that this recommended amount becomes 6GB in 1 year, 9GB in 3 years, and 12GB in 5 years.

Besides, as long as he sticks to 512MB cards the x16 bandwidth won't do much - and unless he uses resolutions higher than 1920x1200 he won't need more than that. And if he upgrades the video card periodically he probably won't even need to CF, just get x2 cards (like the 4870x2). They are cheaper and faster than two separate cards anyway.
that route would cost more money, as X2 cards are much more expensive, and in regards to RAM, considering that in 2001, 1gb a RAM was what 4gb of ram is today, and that in 2006, 2gb of ram is what 4gb is now... that means it takes about 5 years to double.

which works out perfectly considering that mobo supports 8gb, and he wants this computer for 5 years.

I'm not sure where the article has gone, but there was a review posted here about a month ago that had the P45 vs. the X38-48, and due to the 8x CF limit, in some tests the p45 was scoring as much as 20fps lower, which his brother in law won't be able to spare in 5 years time.
    
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post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry_John_Scott View Post
that route would cost more money, as X2 cards are much more expensive, and in regards to RAM, considering that in 2001, 1gb a RAM was what 4gb of ram is today, and that in 2006, 2gb of ram is what 4gb is now... that means it takes about 5 years to double.
2001->2006 = 5 years, but 2006->2008 = 2 years.

And if you look at it the timeline a bit closer, you'll see that capacities went up at least 2x-4x overnight every time new types of ram were made standard with a new processor, and then usually doubled again before the next generation came out.


386 (1986):
FPM RAM - 2MB at start, 4MB at end.

486 (1989):
FPM RAM - 4MB at start, 8MB at end

Pentium 1 (1993):
EDO RAM - 32MB at start, 64MB at end

Pentium II (1997):
SDRAM - 256MB at start, 512MB at end

Pentium III (1999):
SDRAM - 512MB at start, 768MB at end (RAM type didn't change)

Pentium 4 (if you don't count the RDRAM flop) (2001):
DDR - 1GB at start, 2GB at end

Core 2 (2006):
DDR2 - 2GB at start, 4GB at end

Core i7 (2008):
DDR3 - speculating 6GB at start (within two or three months after release), 12GB by the time Core i8 (or whatever) is released


So really, going over 8GB could be a possibility even within 2-3 years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry_John_Scott View Post
which works out perfectly considering that mobo supports 8gb, and he wants this computer for 5 years.

I'm not sure where the article has gone, but there was a review posted here about a month ago that had the P45 vs. the X38-48, and due to the 8x CF limit, in some tests the p45 was scoring as much as 20fps lower, which his brother in law won't be able to spare in 5 years time.

But realistically you'd expect that anyone still upgrades what they need to, weather its the RAM or the video card. The difference is that the P45 has less of a limit on its upgrades.
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